Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 13th, 2008

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

The question was fair, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I will determine that.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I raised a point of order and you need to hear it, and then the chair will decide whether it's appropriate or not—and that's not your job.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

On your point of order, Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

If I understood the question, it's asking the department to go to various newspapers to see if there are editorials and to get copies of them, which is something the member or anybody else can do. I don't think that's an appropriate request to make of anybody. If Mr. Karygiannis wants to know if there's an editorial in some paper, he ought to go and get it. If he wants to do it, he has the means to do it. But we ought not send departmental people searching to see if there are editorials in papers. That's something he can do, and I would say it's an improper request, and—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If you've got an ad in this newspaper and you've got an interview by the minister in the paper, don't try to tell me—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I object to the provision of that request.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

To that point of order, Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chairman, we agreed in the past that when someone raises a point of order, the clock would stop, so that the member would not lose out on any time. If the clock isn't stopped, there will be a flurry of points of order calling for clarifications, rulings or comments. By stopping the clock, you can hear what is being said and rule that it is not in fact a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

To that point of order, Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I have a suggestion, Mr. Chair.

When a point of order is called for—and the parliamentary secretary seems to be calling a whole lot—and once a determination is made, if there's another point of order, the time taken should be deducted from the parliamentary secretary's speaking time versus deducting it from the person who's speaking over here. This can apply to everybody.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

There is no point of order to begin with, but it's a valid observation, which might be difficult for—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

On the point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

If you're not going to hear the chair, I might as well adjourn this meeting. Do you want me to do that?

[An hon. member]

Sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It's not an established practice and it's not in the rules that we not take the time of a point of order from the member who is speaking. That generally comes out of the member's time. I know we could run into an avalanche of points of order, but generally speaking, that's the deterrent for people bringing up foolish points of order, that it would be deducted. However, it's not in the rules that it should be deducted from a member's time, so we haven't been deducting that time.

I will continue on, unless there are more points of order.

Mr. Komarnicki, do you have a point of order again?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Just on the point of order, I'll have to agree with Mr. Karygiannis on that point, that if a point of order is made—and there are legitimate reasons for making a point of order—and it were deducted from his speaking time, and there were a series of points of order, it could literally shut him down from having any time to question at all. So it would seem to me, and I would agree with Mr. St-Cyr here, that a point of order needs to be made, because there is a legitimate point to it, but it shouldn't be deducted from the member's speaking time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Is it agreed that it should not be deducted from a member's speaking time?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I think we could just have that, generally speaking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Is this what you want?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes, so I have another minute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think at some point in time we would want to get into what I suggested, because when somebody takes up time with points of order that are frivolous, it means somebody else doesn't get to speak. I think the member who raises those frivolous points of order is the one who should have less time to make up for his frivolousness.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Is it agreed then, generally, that we will not deduct the time from the member's point of order?