Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 14th, 2008

[Blair Wilson, Independent, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Sadly.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

This should not be a problem. We have all sorts of skilled tradespeople who could be coming in here. We're just not letting them in.

This is one of the things I asked when I went across the country, and I'm going to put it to you. If you had a choice of hiring somebody who was a temporary foreign worker or a landed immigrant, which one would you want?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Ms. Pohlmann.

[Corinne Pohlmann]

I don't think any of us are disagreeing with what you're saying. In fact, the last chart that I showed on my particular presentation really illustrates the fact that the immigration system, as it exists today, primarily lets in folks with professional degrees. Yet that's not where the skills that are needed in our economy today are located.

So we wouldn't disagree with you. And in fact we think there should be a lot more emphasis on a bona fide job offer as one of the areas you need to look at in terms of the point system, and there should be more emphasis on those types of things. So we're not disagreeing with you.

The problem is that there is a backlog, and that backlog has to be dealt with. What are we going to do to deal with the backlog? I think those are two issues that can be combined, but they can also be separated. So that's the question we put to you.

We're not seeing any other movement to deal with the backlog. And from our perspective at CFIB, honestly we don't know if this is the right answer, but we believe that something needs to be done. We're encouraging you as the decision-makers to think about the best way to do that, given the problems we're bringing to you today that are out there, and they're real.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

The problem with the backlog is that it doesn't have an inventory of what you're looking for, because the system is elitist. It might have it in the refugee class, or it might have it for dependants. But carpenters, welders, or cooks—they're not in the backlog. I come back to my question, what would you rather have? Would you rather have temporary foreign workers without their families, or immigrants with their families? I appreciate that you have to get the people here. But what would you rather have—a temporary foreign worker or an immigrant making an investment in Canada?

[Corinne Pohlmann]

I believe the majority of our members would prefer a permanent immigrant. At present, however, it's easier and faster to go through the temporary foreign worker system.

[Jon Garson]

The only reason our members access the temporary foreign worker program is that they cannot find workers in Canada. That is the whole point of the labour market opinion process.

We didn't address this in our remarks. We tried to focus on the proposed changes in Bill C-50. But we would strongly endorse the comments that have been made with regard to the point system. It is a significant challenge. If you were to change the point system or lower it, which is certainly a recommendation of the chamber movement, you should bear in mind that this would increase the number of applications.

We think a defining of the challenges and their priorities, in consultation with industry and the provincial governments, should be undertaken in connection withBill C-50. This is something we would be keen to see.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will try to be brief so as to leave a little time for Mr. Carrier. I hope that the interpretation is working properly.

First of all, I would like to know to what extent your group was consulted by the government as this policy was being developed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

We're struggling here.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chair, while we are waiting for the interpretation, I would like to point out...

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, we're stopping your time.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay, thank you.

I would still like to point out that we have to wait for translation every time. It would be good to point this out from the outset, in order to give the witnesses time to prepare.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Yes, you're right. Do you have your interpretation now? Okay.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

To what extent were you consulted by the government as the bill we are studying was being developed? All three of you can answer.

[Corinne Pohlmann]

No, we were not consulted on this aspect of the immigration bill. We have been consulted on other elements of it.

[Joyce Reynolds]

We've had a regional office that participated in information sessions about this bill. So we have been consulted.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Once it was tabled.

[Joyce Reynolds]

Because this is the number-one issue for the foodservice industry, we've been meeting with government over the last few years on a regular basis. So yes, we have been consulted.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Garson, to what extent were you consulted by the government as the bill before us was being developed?

[Jon Garson]

I beg your pardon?

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Were you consulted as the bill before us was being developed?

[Jon Garson]

Sorry it took me so long to answer. No.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

You will have gathered that, the bill aside, I am very worried about the way in which this major reform has been put in place. Some of you have mentioned New Zealand and Australia, where reforms and significant changes have been made. I do not know if you had the opportunity to follow the situation down there. Could such major changes have been made to the immigration systems of those countries after one week of hurried consultation?

[Jon Garson]

I haven't followed Australia or New Zealand. I have followed, to a greater degree, the changes in the United Kingdom, given that is where I originally came from. There was significant prior consultation before changes were tabled to their operation process.