Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 14th, 2008

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Okay.

If one looks at the advertisements in the different communities, do they give you a clear sense of what this bill is all about? Because the ads say something in the nature of wanting to reduce the backlog and being flexible. I can't quote the ads. I keep seeing them in different places and in different languages.

[Elizabeth Lim]

I just think that how the minister is using the ads to say it's going to reduce the backlog does not reflect the statements in Bill C-50 in black and white. It does not match what it states.

Sure, everybody wants to reduce the backlog, but how she's going to do it does not make sense.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Do you want to give your minute and a half to Mr. Carrier?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are really interested in immigration policy, as I am sure you can see.

I wanted to share with you the fact that we spent three weeks travelling across the country from coast to coast to discuss, and attempt to resolve, a number of immigration problems. During that time, this bill was brought forward in the House of Commons. During our trip, which also looked at other matters, the parliamentary secretary strictly forbade us to talk about the part dealing with immigration. We have only had this week, that is, three days from morning to night, to discuss it and to catch up.

The frustrating thing that you need to know is that Bill C-50 deals with the budget. It contains 136 pages, of which only two deal with immigration policy. It does not take long to spell out: the minister is going to decide which applications to look at.

Our frustration comes from the fact that normally, we have time to discuss a bill and to hear witnesses before a final vote on an immigration policy that we could have had in separate legislation. Despite the good intentions that the minister said she has, it is surprising to see that you are giving carte blanche to a minister who may not be there next year, who could go off in a completely different direction. I felt it was important for you to know that, given that you both support this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to cut you off there, Mr. Carrier.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Ms. Lim, with respect to the legislation that's proposed, you could challenge it as being out of compliance with the charter. Would you agree with me?

[Elizabeth Lim]

It needs to be charter-compliant. However—

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

No. My question is, if you wanted to challenge it on whether or not it was charter-compliant, you could do that.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Let her answer.

Mr. Chair, point of order.

[Elizabeth Lim]

All laws in this country need to be—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, why don't you have the parliamentary secretary respect the witness and let her answer?

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please. There's no point of order.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Use the same principles on both sides.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Order, please.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Elizabeth Lim]

All laws need to be charter-compliant in this country. However, what does charter compliance mean? Will it mean that these laws will be non-discriminatory? It may not happen.

Even if these laws can be challenged under the charter, it would take years for it to go through the system. During that time, how many people would be affected?

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

It couldn't be based on race, religion, or ethnicity and still be charter-compliant. That would be a fundamental right, would it not?

[Elizabeth Lim]

Based on what? How are you going to choose people? If you base it on visa posts, it would restrict it to people who can apply from certain countries.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

That wasn't quite what I was asking. I was saying that if it needed to be charter-compliant, it couldn't be based on race, religion, or ethnicity. Would you agree with me on that?

[Elizabeth Lim]

If you need it to be charter-compliant, you have to look at the practical effects.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Just answer my question, okay?

[Elizabeth Lim]

Yes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

With respect to the instruction itself, this legislation is not the instruction. It makes the provision for the instruction. The instruction is something that will come later. You would agree with that?