Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Jan. 30th, 2008

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What exactly is the minister saying by that, or is the minister trying to cover the 100 exotic dancers that have probably gone astray in the years before and she's trying to stick it to the 113,000 people who are coming in?

I say this clearly to you, sir, that the minister is sugar-coating this in order to stick it to the people who are applying to come to Canada--workers--and she's really going to take a heavy-handed approach. That's what I think this bill is to do.

[Les Linklater]

These provisions, as I said earlier, will allow instructions to be generated based on objective evidence where we can tie...or there's a common understanding that there are situations where there is a risk of abuse, regardless of occupation. This is not targeting specific occupations.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sir, would you be able to supply to this committee such samples of instructions so that this committee can consider them before we move on, in supporting this legislation?

[Les Linklater]

As I said during my earlier remarks, we've not yet moved to the process of developing instructions. We've been focusing on developing—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Last question, Mr. Chair.

Sir, then how can you ask us to support this when you don't know exactly what you will be doing?

[Les Linklater]

As I said, the instructions that will be developed will be based on objective evidence. We need to be very careful in doing our research to understand what evidence is available.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

It's like a pig in a poke.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

So to be clear, it gives the minister the authority to allow an officer, if he has objective evidence that there is going to be abuse to an individual who might be entering the country, the opportunity to stop that individual from coming into the country. Right?

[Les Linklater]

The act would allow the minister to develop instructions that would be issued to officers where there is objective evidence that indicates that there may be a risk of exploitation or abuse. Officers would be obliged to take those instructions with that evidence into consideration as part of their decision-making process on a case-by-case basis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a request to you.

Could you request from the minister a sample of such instructions? Can you request from the minister some written notes on how this is going to be handled?

We're asked to do a bill here, and we have the witnesses in front of us who are experts, who are certainly not providing for us a substantive amount of answers that will lead us, this government and this Parliament, to make decisions that are supportive.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay. I'm sure that in the clause-by-clause consideration of the bill we'll probably get into that, but in the meantime, I think the clerk has taken note.

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you all for being here.

Because this is the first time I have spoken as the new Bloc Québécois critic, I would like to say that I am very happy to be working with you. I hope that our work will be productive and that the decisions we make will be good ones for the public.

Earlier, I heard a discussion of numbers, but I missed a few. In terms of the latest statistics from last year, did I understand that 116,000 were issued every year?

[Les Linklater]

We issued 113,000 last year.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

There were 113,000. I was close.

[Les Linklater]

I mean in 2006, sir.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Of that number, how many were for exotic dancers?

[Les Linklater]

In 2006, 21 work permits were issued to exotic dancers.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

We agree that this is a fairly small subset. Of that number, has it been determined how many of them may have been exploited on the job and how many had no particular problems?

[Les Linklater]

Unless the federal or provincial authorities received complaints, we have no figures regarding the potential rate of abuse or exploitation.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

This bill does not relate exclusively to exotic dancers. You told us that there might be other situations in which people are exploited. Historically, however, this bill originated with the issue of exotic dancers.

Have you analyzed the present market situation, both in terms of people coming from abroad who dance in bars and clubs and in terms of the general population of Canada doing the same work?

[Les Linklater]

No, we have not done an assessment relating to dancers in Canada.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

It seems to me that the problem is much broader than these 21 people. I am trying to see why the government has introduced a bill that focuses on restricting people once they have entered in order to protect them from themselves, when there seems to be nothing in this bill that is going to protect the people who are already here.

Am I mistaken here? Are there measures in this bill for people, Canadian women workers, for example, who might be victims of exploitation?

[Les Linklater]

Not for Canadians, no. This bill deals only with foreigners who come to work in Canada. That is our mandate, and we do not want to authorize entry into Canada by people who might be exploited or whose Canadian employers might abuse them.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

The bill talks about people who are at risk of being subjected to humiliating or degrading treatment and who might be sexually exploited. Are those situations not already illegal?

[Les Linklater]

If a complaint is made by the victim, yes. This bill, however, will give us the power to protect a potential worker from abuse before he or she enters Canada.