Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We'd better have a motion first. Could I have a motion from somebody? The motion is moved by Mr. Bevilacqua.

How did I do? I'm getting better. Give me a couple of weeks, and I'll be just fine.

Mr. Dykstra, do you have an amendment?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It's just a quick amendment, Mr. Chair, that unless otherwise ordered, each committee member be allowed to be accompanied by one staff person at an in camera meeting and, in addition to that, one person from either the whip's office, the House leader's office, or the research division of each party.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Is there any opposition to that?

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Next we move to in camera meeting transcripts. The motion is moved by Mr. Dykstra. Is there any debate?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Regarding notices of motions, there's a draft here with a blank. Mr. Dykstra has moved that 48 hours be there for notices of motion.

Excuse me?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

For notification, that's 48 hours to the clerk, not 48 hours from the clerk onwards. Should we be giving a motion, let's say on a Tuesday, to the clerk, then that's 48 hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

That's my understanding, but if we want to, we can put some wording in here to clarify that. You want--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Forty-eight hours from the time the clerk receives the motion. That's what traditionally has been done.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I agree. There is an amendment. Is there any further debate on either?

Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Given that our committees meet at 9 a.m., if we pass the 48 hours rule, we are at 9 a.m. two days earlier. In practice, that mostly means submitting motions three days in advance. Since we meet at 9 a.m., we could set the notice at 36 hours, a day and a half, in order to have two full days to study the motion. That would avoid the clerk receiving e-mails at 1 a.m., as Mr. Karygiannis pointed out. As a committee member, it does not give me more time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, if an e-mail is sent to the clerk during the sitting of the committee between 9 and 11, traditionally that's taken as a 48-hour window. I mean a 48-hour window to the clerk. I think this is what traditionally has been done.

Thierry was here in the last committee, and so was Olivia Chow. This is what traditionally was done. We're debating a motion. We give something to the clerk. That's traditionally 48 hours.

I mean, Mickey Mousing the time between 9 and 11...so you give it to him at 10. Usually motions are considered at the end of a committee meeting, so that takes care of the 48 hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're not making an amendment, you're just musing.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

No, I was just checking if there was any interest in that. I do not want to make an amendment if no one else is with me. I was not trying to say that 48 hours comes at the beginning or the end of the committee meeting, but that 48 hours is the same as two days. I point out to the committee that, since we will be here from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. on Tuesdays, we would have to submit a motion before the Tuesday meeting if we want to get it passed at Thursday's meeting. In practical terms, that is three days. Because of our schedule, if we pass the 48 hours rule, this committee is giving itself no possibility of being able to react on Thursday to anything that could happen after our Tuesday meeting. But if we say 36 hours, we could submit a motion for the next meeting immediately after the previous one. We cannot do that as the motion presently stands. If you see what I am driving at, let us change the time to 36 hours. If I am the only one who sees it like that, there is no need to vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

There is an amendment by Mr. Karygiannis.

Are there any further amendments?

Are we clear what that amendment is? The amendment is “to the clerk”.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Being 48 hours.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

That 48 hours includes the window...that we're here.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Are you clear with that wording, Mr. Clerk? Maybe you had better tell us what you think it is, so we know what we're voting on.

Can you read the amendment when you get a chance, Mr. Clerk?

[The Clerk]

As I understand it, Mr. Karygiannis proposes wording along these lines: “and that the notice of motion be calculated from the time it is filed with the clerk of the committee”.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Given the window of opportunity between 9 and 11 in the morning on Tuesday, that's part and parcel of the 48 hours. So if you give the motion at 10 o'clock, that makes the committee meeting next Thursday.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Technically speaking then, you'd have to bring it up at 10 o'clock.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm saying that the 48 hours includes the two hours we sit.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Chair, let's be clear: 48 hours is 48 hours. If you're going to come to a committee meeting on Tuesday morning and hand it in halfway through a committee meeting, it has to be within 48 hours of the start of the second meeting. If you come to a meeting and hand in the motion, that's generally where the 48 hours starts.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Traditionally it has been the practice of this committee that, should a motion arise during the discussion of committee work, the member hands it in to the clerk and, as of 9 o'clock in the morning, the 48 hours starts ticking. Technically, if you hand it in at 10 o'clock, then you have to deal with it on Thursday morning at 10 o'clock.

We usually deal with motions at the end of the committee, so it's part and parcel of the same thing. Let's not nitpick on 10 o'clock, 9:30, or 10:30.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I understand what Mr. Karygiannis is saying. That's not my point here. The point is that we either have a timeframe or we don't have a timeframe. If it's 48 hours, it's 48 hours. If we want to make it 46 hours, then make it 46 hours.