Can I answer that?
Evidence of meeting #16 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was asked.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #16 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was asked.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Member, Caregivers Support Services
Dr. Ruby Dhalla doesn't know how I really suffered. I kept on asking for my documents, every time she came home, every Thursday night, saying my time is at risk, because I need the sponsorship or else I will go back home. She's holding my documents. She doesn't know how I feel. When I call the Intercede I keep telling them I'm not.... I am working illegally. I don't know if it's right to tell you, or are you going to deport me right now, but I need all my documents, and please help me so that somebody will sponsor me.
I can assure you that I cannot go back home, because I have four kids to support. My husband is jobless. They need to go to school. My eldest is in high school. I don't need them to suffer. I don't want to go back home, because they will be living in poverty. I don't want to see them starving. I want to stay here. Even if they want me to work until eleven at night, I will do it, because for me my happiness is to send money back home. My husband is--
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Good morning, everybody.
First of all, I would like to thank Ms. Gordo and Ms. Tongson for coming to this meeting. I appreciate your courage and I understand how much you have gone through. I also appreciate the challenges immigrant women can face in this country, or indeed in any country. We're here to listen, so don't feel scared. You'll have the freedom to speak the truth.
The first question is for the caregivers, for Ms. Gordo and Ms. Tongson, as well as for Ms. Velasco. Did you or anyone associated with this issue receive threats after this issue came to light?
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Can you repeat your answer? We didn't hear it very well. My question was whether you or anyone associated with this issue received threats after this issue came to light. Please repeat your answers. We didn't hear clearly.
Member, Caregivers Support Services
I received harassing phone calls on Saturday afternoon, and they went on until about 8:45 in the evening. It was my daughter who answered the last call, because I was already getting upset. We reported it to the police.
Member, Caregivers Support Services
The person said that they believed that I've been known to be doing good for caregivers; that my reputation would be in jeopardy if I went to Ottawa; that I should not believe the story of Richelyn and Magdalene Gordo, because they are lying; and that their lawyer has a lot of documents against them to prove that they are lying.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
So they threatened you about coming to Ottawa. Am I right in saying that? Yes? Thank you.
What about Ms. Gordo and Ms. Tongson?
Member, Caregivers Support Services
I received three phone calls from different women. The first caller asked me if was going to Ottawa to testify, and I said that I had no comment. She kept on asking me whether she could give me an envelope before I went. She asked to meet me so she could give me an envelope. I said that I didn't want to meet her, and that I had no comment. Then she said that if I went, I would be at risk. I hung up.
An hour later, another woman called me. I asked how they got my number. I asked for her name and she said “Jenny”. The second caller asked me if I had ever had any direct contact with Mr. Jason Kenney, and I said that I didn't have any comment. She then asked for Richelyn's telephone number. I said that I couldn't give her any information. She asked if I was going to Ottawa to testify, and I said that I had no comment. Then she asked me if I could meet her, and she promised that it was safe. She said that she was going to give me some useful information, so that I could win this issue. She said it was against Ruby Dhalla. I said that I had no comment, and that I wasn't interested in meeting her. She was a stranger and I didn't want to meet her.
The third caller called two hours later. She asked me if I was going to Ottawa, and I said that I had no comment. She asked me if I had ever had direct contact with Jason Kenney or any politicians. I said that I had never had any connection with any politician, and that I had no other comment.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Thank you.
Could you finish your statement? We were cut off just now because of time constraints, and I understand, Ms. Tongson, you did not finish your statement. Can you pick up where you stopped and finish your statement? I'll give you my time, 30 seconds.
Member, Caregivers Support Services
When their mom came, that was the start; I had to follow mom's every order in what to do. She met me all the time in the house and dragged me to the clinic after clinic hours. I also was the first when their mom asked me to do it, because Dr. Neil doesn't want his car dirty. Dr. R. keeps on asking me about my documents. She said it's necessary for processing my papers. On March 15 I gave all my documents to Dr. Ruby Dhalla--passport, birth certificate, and marriage contract. That day I received salary from Tavinder. She said when she comes back she will give me a work permit, since she is working in Parliament and in immigration law. I waited for Dr. R. to come every Thursday night and began asking what happened to my documents. Sometimes she said they were in the immigration process. I kept asking every week. Sometimes she said she was tired, that she would give them my work permit when she came home.
On April 14 at noon, I was so sad and crying: “Dr. R., my status is at risk. What's happening?” So she dialed someone and I asked what was happening to my documents, and she answered she was already processing my papers by placing my name in the newspaper. I said to her that is not the right way of processing. I asked Dr. Ruby to talk to Akemi and ask how to do the paperwork, so she phoned Akemi and did the paperwork while Akemi was on the phone.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Oh, come on.
Mr. Sinclair, I'm going to have to cut your client off. We're well over the time. We have another witness at 10 o'clock.
Mr. Sinclair, I'm going to ask you and your clients to sit there for one minute. I'm going to suspend the meeting and I will get back to you in one minute.
Thank you.
The meeting is suspended.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We're going to reconvene the meeting.
Mr. Sinclair, I want to thank you and your clients for coming.
Ladies, it's been a very difficult time for you, and on behalf of the committee I want to thank you. It is possible that the committee may want to see you again, but I do want to thank you for appearing this morning and giving your testimony to members of the committee. Thank you very much. But do keep in mind that we may call you back at a later date.
Mr. Sinclair, thank you very much.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Ms. Dhalla, welcome to the committee. Thank you very much. You're appearing before the committee on this topic.
Mr. Levitt, I'll give you the same comments that I made to the other witnesses. You're here to provide advice, if you wish, to Ms. Dhalla. You are not permitted to make a statement. You are not permitted to ask questions. You are not permitted to answer questions. But we do welcome you to the committee and you're quite free to advise your client at any time.
Ms. Dhalla, you have up to ten minutes, if you wish, to make an opening statement. Thank you very much for coming.
Liberal
Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair and colleagues, thank you so much for accepting my request to come and speak to you this morning. The work this committee is undertaking is vital to the building of our nation, in which there is equality, fairness, and justice. In fact, it is fairness that brings me here before you today: fairness for those bringing forward the allegations; fairness for all foreign workers, who have a right to be welcomed and to be treated well in our country; and fairness for anyone who has been accused of wrongdoing, like me.
I'm here today to speak to you about an issue that has really taken on a life of its own, an issue that has been based on innuendo and allegations that are false and unsubstantiated. Politics have really been in large supply, and fairness has really been hard to find. Reporters have been reporting on this, journalists have been writing about it, and political parties have been using this issue to exploit it in their own sensational ways, for their own partisan purposes.
You can only imagine what it's like to have been the subject of these stories, to have your character and your conduct maligned without an opportunity to even have the chance to fairly defend your name. Can you imagine how it feels to have the very values and beliefs that have defined you as an individual, as a person—values and beliefs that you have championed as a family—put into question?
But I'm here today, my colleagues, to put the record straight and to ensure that the facts are brought to light—not based on allegations, but based on facts and proof and evidence.
I, Ruby Dhalla, did not employ Magdalene Gordo or Richelyn Tongson. I, Ruby Dhalla, did not sponsor Magdalene or Richelyn. I did not pay the salaries of Magdalene or Richelyn. I was not the person to whom care was provided by Magdalene or Richelyn. And I had no involvement from an immigration or employment perspective.
I did have one involvement, though, and that was as a daughter, a daughter who made an initial phone call to an agency for her mother who required help. And that referral in itself was received from a very good friend. After that initial phone call, it was my mother and my brother who had contact with that agency.
I, like many others, am trying to wonder why these caregivers have come forward 15 months later, after leaving our home on what I thought were good terms. I don't know what their motive is, but I do want to tell all of you today that I have nothing to hide and I have done nothing wrong.
If you take a look at the allegations themselves, Ms. Gordo alleges that she was not paid for her work, but when you take a look at the evidence and the proof, it is Ms. Gordo herself who has signed handwritten receipts stating that she had received the funding, the payments. She also signed a receipt stating that nothing more was owed.
It is Ms. Gordo who says that she worked for three weeks. But again, when you take a look at the evidence, it is she who states that she only worked for a period of eleven days.
Out of those eleven days, she states that I took her passport for two weeks. But today she has stated that she never gave her passport. And let me tell you, my friends, out of the eleven days that Ms. Gordo worked for our home, I have every single boarding card to prove where I was on those particular dates; and out of the eleven, I was only home for three; and in those three days of being in the GTA itself, I was involved with my constituency and the community.
It is alleged that I have had regular contact with Ms. Gordo, but when you take a look at the proof and the evidence once again, and you take a look at all of the boarding cards that I have, I wasn't even physically in the GTA.
They both claim to have shovelled snow, but my mother has hired a snow shoveller for the past five years, and it is this snow shoveller who has given a written statement stating he has never come to the home to find the snow already shovelled.
They claim to have cleaned the clinics. My brother has a professional cleaning service that cleans the clinics on a daily basis, and has done so since the clinics were opened.
Ms. Tongson states that I took her passport, but she has signed documentation stating that it was my brother who took her passport for the purpose of doing her sponsorship. She has also signed a receipt acknowledging that it was my brother she returned that passport to. And the day the passport was returned I myself was on a flight en route from Ottawa to Toronto. Ms. Tongson dated the receipt.
In another effort to advance her claim—and I don't know if this has come out—it was Ms. Tongson who tried to impersonate me to HRSDC.
There is one final item I think is of incredible importance and people have been wondering about. We have taken a look at the stories, and it has been written in the stories that both Magdalene and Richelyn were here in Canada illegally. However, I do want to report to all of you today that the agency has confirmed that both Magdalene and Richelyn were in Canada legally.
After presenting this evidence, it is clear that I, Ruby Dhalla, am not the employer, I am not the sponsor. And to that end, to ensure my good name that I have worked incredibly hard for my whole life, I have personally asked the Ethics Commissioner to investigate this issue, and I will cooperate fully with the investigation.
I am the daughter of a loving and caring mother who was an immigrant to this country. And like these caregivers we are talking about today, my mom also came to Canada with a dream and a desire to make a difference. She, like many other new Canadians, left behind a good life and came with a hope for a better life and better future for her children. My mom came to Canada without a dollar, and she worked dollar by dollar to save and to build a good life for her family and for her children. She overcame the challenges that are faced by so many new Canadians: learning English, getting a job, and learning a new way of life. She struggled, she persevered, and she raised two kids on her own. I remember growing up and watching my mother make all the sacrifices for the well-being of my brother and me. She taught us the virtues of honesty, integrity, and respect.
My mom worked in families. She worked as a caregiver. She has worked as a child care worker, and she has given us opportunities, my brother and me, that we have been so incredibly blessed since. I guess it was in going to an inner-city neighbourhood that I learned that whether one is a CEO, a janitor, or a waiter, everyone deserves to be treated with respect and fairness.
I hear about some of the words that have been used to describe my family this week, and I wish those people could only know my life story. I have learned about valuing people not for who they are on the outside but who they are on the inside. And that is why these allegations that have come forward have gone against every grain of salt for which my family and I have worked for so many years. My mom worked in factories. She worked as a caregiver. She worked as a child care worker. If anyone knows the vulnerabilities that immigrant women face, that single immigrant women face, I know it, because I've lived it and I've experienced it.
You know people so often in this story have used the word “power” to describe those who are in politics and have described the caregivers as “vulnerable”. But anyone who knows me knows that for me politics is not about power. It's about helping those very women who we saw giving testimony earlier on. It is about helping those women who are struggling to be heard, the voiceless and the powerless. To me, politics has been about their hopes and their dreams.
I want to tell all of you, my colleagues, as many of you know my journey has not been easy. And while all of us know that public life exposes us to a certain amount of openness, it is in events such as this that you experience the extent of it. To have your home, which is supposed to be your sanctuary, described in detail in public is a violation I cannot even put to you in words. To have your mother's health records discussed all over national television, to have your family's home address and phone number, your private sanctuary, flashed all over the world is an intrusion.
I never thought in my lifetime the day would come in Canadian politics when my own personal quest to break down barriers for women, young people, and immigrants would result in my own family—myself, my mother, and my brother—becoming victims.
All of us, as Canadians, and everyone who is watching today must never forget that politicians are people too. Politicians are human beings who have feelings and emotions. And politicians, from time to time, as human beings, make mistakes. I can tell you as a young woman that it is no small challenge to live in the public eye and to climb that steep hill that still stands for young people and for women in their political journey.
While the allegations made against me are false and unsubstantiated, I do believe there are specific reforms that can be made and must be made to ensure that the live-in caregiver program protects both caregivers and employers. And I want all of you to know that I am committed to working with this committee, to working with those women we just saw on TV, to working with advocacy groups and the Canadian Caregivers Association, to ensure that those reforms are implemented, to ensure that not only is there fairness for the caregivers but that there is also fairness for employers, that there is fairness for all. I so strongly believe that is the Canadian way.
In conclusion, anyone who has ever entered my home has always been treated with love, care, and respect. That is why this past week has been so difficult. But I am blessed to have so many constituents from Brampton—Springdale, friends, caucus colleagues, and Canadians, who have called me, who have e-mailed me and written to me. I want all of you to know that your words of support have encouraged me and have given me strength as we move forward to ensure that the facts, the truth, and the evidence come out.
As a member of Parliament, as a daughter, as a sister, and as a Canadian, I want to once again thank you for this opportunity to appear before you again. I would hope that by working together, with each and every Canadian, we will ensure there is fairness for all.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Thank you, Ms. Dhalla.
You referred to some documents. Did you wish to present those to the clerk at the conclusion of the meeting, perhaps?
