Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 16th, 2009

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Yes, but adopted children born abroad will be treated differently depending on how they got their citizenship. That is what you confirmed earlier.

[Andrew Griffith]

Yes.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I would like to know whether this is simply an oversight in the legislation. When we passed Bill C-37, did we realize that under the legislation, naturalized individuals, including some of the children adopted abroad, could pass on their citizenship, even outside the country, but was it forgotten that children adopted abroad obtained their citizenship directly? Is the problem simply that no provision was made for these cases, that it is just a silly mistake, or is there a reason why children born abroad and adopted according to the conventional procedure can pass on their citizenship abroad, while children who obtain their citizenship directly cannot do so?

[Rick Stewart]

In Canada, the situation of individuals who were naturalized is the same as that of individuals born in Canada, whereas the situation of individuals who received a direct grant of citizenship abroad, in the case of an adoption, is entirely equivalent to that of Canadians born abroad.

The objective of Bill C-14 was to provide equivalency for individuals born abroad. Bill C-37 subsequently changed the rules, the requirements for the first generations.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I understand what you're saying, Mr. Stewart. You are talking about the legal consequences, but I want to know the underlying reasons. Reference has been made to an attachment criterion. But I have trouble seeing how this criterion, in the case of children adopted by Canadian parents who come to live in Canada, is connected to the procedure whereby these children got their citizenship. I understand the legal consequences and the two equivalent situations, but I am wondering what the reason for this is.

[Nicole Girard, Director, Legislation and Program Policy, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

As Mr. Stewart and Mr. Griffith said, we are talking here about children born abroad to Canadian parents and children adopted abroad by Canadians. The objective is simply to treat the two groups fairly with respect to passing on Canadian citizenship.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Merci.

I have a brief question, something that Mr. Bevilacqua was asking, and you responded with the term “the assessment of hardship”. I assume that it's left vague purposely to give discretion; however, the very fact that we're asking these questions.... Are there guidelines? Are there guidelines anywhere on this issue?

[Rick Stewart]

There is a vagueness to the discretionary provision in order to allow flexibility to deal with whatever cases come forth.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Of course.

[Rick Stewart]

To the extent that they're guidelines, we are guided by three basic parameters and an overriding principle.

The first one is that the individual lives in Canada or has lived in Canada for most of their life.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Is this written down somewhere in a guideline or is this just an understanding?

[Rick Stewart]

It's written down in guidelines that we give to our assessment officers, our citizenship officers, to those who are making these decisions.

So do they live here now? Have they lived here most of their life? Have they had a reasonable but mistaken belief that they are Canadian or that they were Canadian, in fact? It's the border babies example.

Then the overriding principle that guides the assessment is the issue of undue hardship. Does it pose an undue hardship for the individual to seek citizenship through the permanent residency and regular grant-of-citizenship process?

Those are the four elements we use. We try to use that to the best of our discretion and in the fairest way possible, on the basis of looking at cases we've seen previously in making a recommendation, positively or negatively, on a case.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

So you're not recommending any change to this process. You believe that the discretionary issue should be left as is.

[Rick Stewart]

We're not recommending changes at this time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Out of 100 cases, what is your percentage of approval?

[Rick Stewart]

What kinds of cases?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Where you would grant subsection 5(4)--what we've been talking about.

[Rick Stewart]

Unfortunately, I don't have that with me. I'm sorry.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Ballpark? General?

[Rick Stewart]

I would prefer not to make a guess.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

When can you provide that information?

[Rick Stewart]

I can follow up and provide the information back to this committee.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You would have some rough idea, because we know how many have been granted.

[Rick Stewart]

We know how many have been granted.