I don't disagree, Mr. Chairman, and I don't think it's a dichotomy. I don't think it's either refugee reform or improved regulation of ghost consultants and intermediaries. I think we need to do both, and I'm committed to doing both.
Ms. Chow is right. There is a connection. I wouldn't overstate the connection. We don't have reliable statistics on this, but from everything I've seen and read, a lot of asylum claims are made on the basis of bad advice, and sometimes commercial advice, but not all of them. So we need to fix both.
When we come forward with a package of refugee reforms, everyone will see that it's going to take a certain period of time to actually implement a new system. I hope we can move a little more quickly on the issue of stricter regulation of consultants, but let's be clear about the issue of ghost consultants. It doesn't matter how serious the penalties are or how vigorous our monitoring and enforcement resources are; at the end of the day there's money to be made, and there will always be, I regret, ghost consultants exploiting—