Evidence of meeting #30 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Is there any advertisement that's done from the $71.2 million?
Director General, Labour Market Integration, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I would have to check with my communication services.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Sir, you spent $71.2 million and you don't know where it's going?
Silvano Tocchi Director, Foreign Credential Recognition Division, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
We do know where the money is going. That's—
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Okay. If you do know, how much is going for advertising?
Director, Foreign Credential Recognition Division, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
That money was disbursed through contribution agreements to third parties. Some third parties may have provided notices of some of the work they're doing. These third parties would have been professional regulators or other labour market bodies with whom we work. They may have made information available through ethnic media.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Tocchi, what I'm hearing is that you're spending $71.2 million and you don't know where it's going. That's what I'm hearing.
Director, Foreign Credential Recognition Division, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
I don't think we would characterize it that way.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
If you can't tell me how much money was used to advertise--
Conservative
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Chair, I'm sure he can answer to his own remarks.
Mr. Tocchi, I am hearing from you, sir, that $71.2 million is used and you don't know where it's going, if you can't tell me how much of that was for advertising in mainstream media and ethnic media.
Executive Director, Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Mr. Karygiannis, on the issue of advertising, I can tell you that the foreign credentials recognition referral office in 2008 undertook a $1 million advertising campaign that was primarily focused on the ethnic media but was also carried in national dailies, print only. I can also tell you that my office currently--in the next few weeks, in fact--will be coming out with yet another advertising campaign, again focused primarily on the ethnic media.
Executive Director, Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It will be $600,000. That will run from November through to the end of March. In order to capitalize on the Olympics, we will add an additional $300,000 in the January to March period to add advertising in transit as well as at airports.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Is there a linkage from our websites in the different posts abroad to your foreign credentials websites?
Executive Director, Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, there is.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I listened to your presentations on the issue of foreign credential recognition. This is a concern for all committee members.
Another thing also concerns me. Immigrants who managed to get their credentials recognized still have difficulty entering the labour market. In some cases, these are even people who have lived here for much of their lives, or who were born here and who still find it hard to integrate because of their name, among other things.
The Journal de Montréal, in particular, conducted a survey that was highly revealing on this point. The same CV was sent out. One bore the name of Mohamed Mohamoud, for example, and the other that of Martin Tremblay. What a surprise, Martin Tremblay received a lot more invitations to an interview than the person with the foreign-sounding name.
That's why the Bloc Québécois has come up with a proposal to introduce an anonymous CV in businesses under federal jurisdiction. That's a principle that has previously been applied in various places in Europe and which is applied by certain major businesses. All the personal information is put on page 1 of the CV, and it is removed when the CV arrives at the business. Recruiters have access only to the information on the person's qualifications. This invites all kinds of discrimination, for both immigrants and women, youths, older workers and so on.
Has this approach been evaluated in the departments? Do you think it could help immigrants at least get over the first hurdle and get invited to an interview, so they can have a chance to show their qualifications in person?
Executive Director, Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Thank you, Mr. St-Cyr, for the question.
I think you've heard in our statements this morning that we all recognize that even with all the assistance that our provincial and territorial colleagues, as well as the federal government, are putting into this issue, there still remain challenges.
The suggestion you've put forth around anonymous CVs, ensuring that no bias would be given because of a person's country of origin or their name, is an interesting model. In fact, I believe Ms. Elizabeth McIsaac, who was here in front of you last Thursday, did share with you that in fact the Royal Bank of Canada has attempted to incorporate that kind of anonymity into its hiring processes, so that the individual's curriculum vitae does become assessed to the point at which a hiring decision is going to be made. Only at that point in the process are the individual's name, country of origin, and credentials, perhaps, brought into the equation. And I think the Royal Bank of Canada has had some success in that effort.
I know that neither HRSDC—I don't think Health Canada, Kathryn—nor Citizenship and Immigration have actually looked at that in terms of a federal program. You can imagine that the federal role is fairly limited, and the example you use is an excellent one for employers to employ. In fact, as we think of how we can collectively ensure that immigrants are integrated into the Canadian labour market as quickly as possible, we need to look not only to governments, but we need to look to employers and what role they can play in ensuring that happens.
So I think the Royal Bank, in putting in place that kind of a system, has something that perhaps a community organization or a group of employers across the country could employ as part of their regular hiring practices. And it's being looked at by the organization Ms. McIsaac represents, the Toronto Region Immigrant Employment Council, which is also affiliated with the Maytree Foundation.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
I'd like to clarify one point because I had the chance to ask Ms. McIsaac some questions at the last meeting, and I went to talk to her afterwards.
With regard to the Royal Bank, if I correctly understood, the idea is simply to standardize the qualifications issue. Instead of saying where candidates have earned their bachelor's degree in finance, they'll simply indicate a standardized equivalence. In that way, there will be no lack of objectivity in saying that the University of Abidjan, for example, isn't really a good university.
However, RBC wasn't yet ready to adopt the completely anonymous CV solution, which would prevent recruiters from guessing the origins of the person by reading his or her name. We of the Bloc Québécois believe that this measure would have a second benefit, this time in terms of positive discrimination programs. When we conducted our consultations, a lot of people told us that, when they had obtained their positions as a result of a positive discrimination policy, they heard a lot of nasty comments insinuating that so and so had obtained the position simply because he was black and that another person did so because she was a woman, and so on.
However, by first sorting on the basis of qualifications and then a selection interview based on a form of positive discrimination, at least everybody in the business is aware that those who have gotten to that stage all had the qualifications to do the job.
Executive Director, Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I would like to further comment on that issue, Mr. St-Cyr. As I said, in learning what the Royal Bank of Canada has done, I think this is an opportunity for all employers across Canada to consider this kind of an approach to ensure that they truly do have an open-door policy and are looking at applicants and CVs that come across their desk in an open and transparent way. I would like to tell you that over the coming 24 months, the Foreign Credentials Referral Office, along with the Alliance of Sector Councils, will be holding 40 sessions in communities across this country to talk to employers about a product that the FCRO--
