Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[Sherman Chan]

For MOSAIC, there are three best practices. One is a consortium that we formed with S.U.C.C.E.S.S. and ISS of B.C., in Vancouver, Burnaby, and New Westminster. We formed a consortium to provide all the settlement services in the three cities. That consortium can help in terms of standardized wages, in terms of training staff, in terms of service delivery and planning, and also in terms of data collection and reporting to our provincial government. So it's working really well, and we talk and work together and we share together. I think that's one of the best practices I've seen. Agencies forget about competition but really work together to address equally immigrants and refugees in Vancouver, Burnaby, and New Westminster.

The second one I would say is our ability to relate policy, research, and programming. We worked with the School of Social Work at the University of B.C. to pilot a project with refugee youth. They are at risk because they are not in school, nor are they at work. So we work with researchers, and we hire a youth outreach team. We work with them where they are and group them together to provide life skills, soft skills, and English-language training to help them to integrate or reintegrate into society.

The third one is not a program in particular, but it is the organizational structure that we see as being important as a best practice. We are working on accreditation, looking at our governance, looking at our management structure, and also looking at policy development. It's really creating a strong and competent organization in order to provide service. I think that is also important.

In addition, we have good connections across Canada with many organizations with which we share best practices. That is important as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Chan.

Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I will get back to the issue of the anonymous CV, because Mr. Tam did not get an opportunity to answer during the last round. At the stage where candidates are selected for interviews, only information relating to the individual's skills would be included, not a person's name, age, gender, photo. In fact, there is a host of other data like that that is not included in a CV, which you pointed out.

Do you think this would be an interesting solution here in Canada?

[Thomas Tam]

We support the principle that all immigrants should be given equal opportunity in job interviews. We would support running some pilot projects in certain cities or regions to see the effectiveness of it and also the acceptance from the business owners.

But from our observations, there are three main challenges the new immigrants are facing in seeking jobs. One of course is the workplace English; the second one is the Canadian local experience; and the third one is the qualification recognition. So we have to work hand in hand with these three challenges when we deal with equal opportunity.

Thank you.

[Noureddine Bouissoukrane]

Just to add to what my colleagues have said, in our agencies what we do... Reasonably, it will be the same for natives and for newcomers, but for a lot of newcomers we do encourage them to do two things. The first thing is to have some Canadian education, which is true, just to upgrade their education. The second is to volunteer. The more volunteer work you have in your résumé, it will give you more chances. It means you have learned the Canadian way of doing business. So the first thing we do is to encourage them to take any Canadian programs so that they will be more aware of how it works here in Canada, and the second is to volunteer.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I understand, and I find that what you are doing with job-seeking immigrants is interesting. However, my view is that there remains some discrimination, not necessarily out of racism, but often, it is unconscious discrimination on the part of a number of employers. For instance, when you look at the CV of an individual who has an engineering degree from the Abu Ghraib University, for instance, hasty judgments can sometimes be made preventing the individual from getting at least to the interview stage and showing what they're worth.

Earlier on, I gave you an example of what had been done in Quebec: identical CVs were sent out where only the name had been changed, but the results were completely different. Is this situation specific to Montreal or is this the reality elsewhere in Canada?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Chan.

[Sherman Chan]

Through Metropolis BC and colleges, we have seen similar research in Toronto and Vancouver. As I mentioned earlier, new immigrants succeed if they are given opportunities by employers to get Canadian experience and receive some kind of mentoring. It also gives the employer the opportunity to really see how the immigrants are working.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have about a minute, so make it quick.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In Quebec there have been some discussions as to whether immigrants should be encouraged to settle in large urban centres or in the regions. Do you believe that it is easier for immigrants to settle in urban centres or in the regions?

[Thomas Tam]

We've been advocating for regional immigration strategies. We believe that new immigrants should be exposed to different types of opportunities in both urban centres and smaller communities around them. But at the moment, because of a lack of information and support in some areas, most new immigrants prefer to settle in urban centres where they can find support and services. That's why we advocate for new strategies to provide more support and effective services in outlying areas to attract and retain new immigrants.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Tan.

Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming such a great distance here today to advise us on these matters. You're the ones who do the work on the front lines, where it's most important. So we appreciate your taking the time to come here today.

Ms. Mendes pointed out that Quebec manages their own settlement services through an agreement with the Government of Canada. I think it's important to note as well that the Government of Canada provides Quebec with funds to do that. In fact this year it was given $226 million, and that will go to $234 million next year. There are also agreements with Manitoba and British Columbia. Some of the money you are able to use in British Columbia--about $22.9 million--comes from the federal government as well. We're pretty proud of that, so I thought I'd put it on the record.

Recently Minister Kenney introduced a pilot project to provide language training vouchers to encourage newcomers to use language training programs funded by Citizenship and Immigration Canada. They would allow Canadians to learn an official language at a settlement agency of their choice.

I wonder if you could each, starting with Mr. Tam, comment on what value that pilot project might add.

[Thomas Tam]

I would like to echo that we thank the Government of Canada for the funding support to British Columbia through the Canada-B.C. agreement.

As to the language vouchers, at this moment we have some reservations about the effectiveness of this system. We see there are a lot of other measures to encourage new immigrants to attend language training. The voucher system might create a lot of competition among service providers. It might also have some negative effects if the clients exchange their vouchers for other benefits.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Have you seen any evidence of that, or is it just a concern you have?

[Thomas Tam]

It's just a concern.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Bouissoukrane.

[Noureddine Bouissoukrane]

The honourable Mr. Kenney came to our agency three or four months ago. He went to classes for students and really made it clear that he wanted new Canadians to speak either French or English.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

So do you think that's a good program?

[Noureddine Bouissoukrane]

It's a very good program.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chan, do you have any comments on that program?

[Sherman Chan]

We also have concerns, because especially in B.C. we haven't seen it; the pilot project is not in B.C. The voucher could create agency instability because it is really based on a fee for service. It's not really providing good infrastructure for agencies.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

But Mr. Chan, why do you think that at this time a lot of newcomers to Canada don't seek language classes?

[Sherman Chan]

People are coming here with different language skills. Some of them are skilled immigrants, some of them are family class, and I think our English language system is geared towards the lower end, those people who need survival English. They come to us. Because of that, if you look at the percentage, I would say we have a good percentage of immigrants who meet the admission requirement and get the language training.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

What I'm thinking of is when I grew up in Toronto, my background is English and Irish, but I went to a school with people from all over Europe—Polish, Ukrainian, Greek, Italian, etc., and I don't think there were language training classes then for adults. They would have to seek them out on their own. They were quite limited. But even now, when the classes are available, relatively few people in some areas pursue the English training. Is that because they are busy taking care of children at home, or is it because they're working full time? What are the roadblocks to that?

We'll start with Mr. Chan, please.