Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[Sherman Chan]

Yes, for some people it may be because they're looking after their children at home or because they are working right away because they need money. However, as I say, when we look at the funding sources, when we look at the number of students we can take, many agencies meet that funding requirement. It doesn't mean that if the government allocated more money for language training, agencies could not fill up the spaces.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Young. Your time has expired.

To inform the members, I've been told there will be no bells, but we still have to go and vote, so we'll leave at 10:30 a.m.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to continue on that line. Mr. Chan, could you very quickly conclude your comments? I think Mr. Young was certainly on to something here and I want to get your response, because it sounds to me that this isn't just about investing a ton of money and solving a problem. This is about identifying ways to continue to build on the successes that we have.

[Sherman Chan]

Yes, I would say that I would still have some doubt about the voucher, unless we see a good result from the pilot project. From an agency perspective, we do have students who are on waiting lists to come to our service, so that means if we need more resources, we can still provide this.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Bouissoukrane had his hand up, Mr. Dykstra.

You're on, Mr. Bouissoukrane.

[Noureddine Bouissoukrane]

Taking care of kids doesn't prevent newcomers from taking English. When newcomers study English, we have programs funded by CIC called child minding, so we do take care of the children at the same time. I don't believe taking care of children is a problem that prevents newcomers from coming to study English because we have a kind of day care under CIC. So while parents are learning English, their children are taken care of by the same agency.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

What I want to discover is, if other agencies offered classes at different times of the day, or on weekends, or in different locations that were more convenient to those families, would that be beneficial?

Mr. Bouissoukrane.

[Noureddine Bouissoukrane]

We do offer English classes on weekends, in the morning, in the afternoon, and in the evening. So if they're working, if newcomers are working full time, they can always study English part time.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Go ahead, Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I actually think we're on to something here. I know this will sound partisan, but it's not an attempt to be partisan. There are investments that have been made over the last number of years with respect to settlement services, with respect to foreign credentials, the $50 million dedicated to expediting those foreign credentials over the next couple of years in terms of being able to do it even before an individual comes here to Canada.

We've made the investments, and I know all three of you in your opening comments said you need more money to deliver services. We are in a situation where there isn't going to be a whole lot more money over the next two to three years, in terms of additional revenue within the budget, so what we're really looking for here, and we're spending a great deal of the committee's time searching this out, is how do we enhance services? Find us a way to do that within the current capacity of the funds we have to offer you.

We're not the budget committee. We're not the finance committee. You didn't come here to plead for more money, because we can't give it to you, but what we really want to find out is if we're going to deliver these services, what are the aspects that we're funding that are not doing anything to enhance what you're delivering? And how do we move that money to make sure that you can deliver services, as you've explained this morning—I can certainly find a couple of examples from each of you—and how can we do it better?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Chan.

[Sherman Chan]

First of all, I still think that, yes, it's important to share best practices, giving organizations ways to learn from each other right now, because Canada is so big. We need opportunities for people to come together to share that. The second is about partnership and consortium building. It's a way that we can standardize our service; it's a way that we can economize. I mentioned the example of the MOSAIC consortium in Vancouver, Burnaby, and New Westminster.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I guess what I would ask--and maybe this isn't something that can be simply done here at the table--is that you take away the suggestion, go back, look at your budgets, look at the services you deliver. We certainly, in writing, will take back what you say. You're saying, look, you're putting funds here, they're not being utilized the way they should. You're not getting the bang for your dollar. You're not getting the investment, the return on it that you believe we should. That's what this committee will be able to use a great deal in terms of making recommendations to the minister for change and wise investment.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Tam.

[Thomas Tam]

I would like to assure the committee that Canada is a model for the world in receiving and welcoming new immigrants. We are rated the best country by the United Nations in welcoming and receiving new immigrants. We also believe that new immigrants have already paid back to the country what we have invested for them. So it's a win-win situation. We help the new immigrants, and once they become contributing members to our society they become a great asset to Canada. So we all benefit from this settlement funding framework.

I know we always have budget constraints, and that's why we have been advocating for creative funding sources. We've been working hard with the private sector, the private sponsorships, to partner with us in different kinds of training for new immigrants, different kinds of services. What we need is for the government to be more flexible in the funding formulas so that we are allowed to be more flexible in terms of seeking new and different funding sources, including private sponsorship.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Tam.

Mr. Bevilacqua, please.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As we all know, one of the major concerns of the committee is the fact that new immigrants are overrepresented in the unemployment rates, in the poverty rates, and in the under-employment rates of the country, thereby not maximizing the human resources potential of our country. It's in our national interest to provide immigrants with the tools required to bring about the type of change that will make them even more productive in our society. You can go home and think about that, because I think in many ways that embodies one of the major objectives of this committee.

I do want to go back to a point that was raised by Mr. Dykstra, if I can piggy-back on his thoughts. It has to do with the ability to streamline operations and to turn a dollar into two. That's possible. I've seen that kind of alchemy before. It comes down to this. Above and beyond your best practice, I want to hear from you. Give me one example of where you were able to perform that magic. In other words, where did your organization reprofile, reinvent itself, to the point of maximizing the dollar value that you have in your possession? I know these are difficult times, not only for the government and our country--as you know, we are faced with a deficit situation--but sometimes investing can turn that dollar into two.

Can you give me just a couple of examples so that when we write the report we can cite you as three organizations that have been able to creatively bring about that type of transformation?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Tam.

[Thomas Tam]

I think we have more than a couple of examples. I would like to mention just a couple here because of the time constraint.

The one I would quote is the project at Fort St. John. We have four full-time staff working there, helping to attract and retain professional immigrants in Vancouver to go to northern B.C. to work for the energy sector. This project is jointly funded by the B.C. government and by the companies in the energy sector, as well as supported by S.U.C.C.E.S.S.'s own resources.

In that case, it's $1 for $3, not $1 for $2. The province is only one of the three sponsors of this project. We are very pleased to inform you that a lot of new immigrants went to Fort St. John to get full-time employment, to settle there, and to have happy families there. This is a very good example of partnership with the private sector. We are also using our own resources.

We have 8,000 volunteers helping us on different aspects. This is also the use of community resources.

I think I've used too much time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Bevilacqua wants to ask another question.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

I want the answers from the next two.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Go ahead, sir.

[Sherman Chan]

I have two examples. One is the social enterprise MOSAIC has been doing for the past 20 years, interpretation and translation. It's targeting corporations because governments and many corporations have to have their materials translated. We are using many translators to do that. Every year it brings in at least $3 million to subsidize other programs.

The other example we have is that we are working with City Credit Union to have a micro loan program that is helping new immigrants learn financial literacy, how to write a small business loan, and then get a business started. It's a pilot sponsorship agreement with Vancity. We have seen many success stories. One of our students got the best small business award because of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Bouissoukrane, you have the last word, if you want it.