Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 12th, 2009

[An hon. member]

Does it have to do with Bill C-37?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Bill C-37 is what we're talking about. Bill C-37 talks about granting of citizenship, and I remember Mr. Karygiannis—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Okay. I'm just making sure we're on the same page, Ms. Chow. Thank you.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Karygiannis said at that time that there would be third-generation children, and if they were born abroad, they would have difficulty with citizenship.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Well--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Karygiannis, let her finish, please. We have a list.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So it's the adoption situation, which is a separate bill, I understand. I think it was Bill C-14. I don't remember precisely what bill number it was. Mr. Bevilacqua's motion originally dealt with that one.

My question really is to Mr. Karygiannis. In reviewing the lost Canadians, is that an issue we would revisit? As of April 1, the bill will come into effect.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Go ahead, sir.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

If I remember correctly, there was a motion on the floor before mine, regarding adopted children. We talked about it few minutes ago.

Last year, I strongly argued that a Canadian is a Canadian regardless of generation. I understand from Mr. Dykstra and our critic, Mr. Bevilacqua, that as far as the second generation is concerned, there are some negotiations and some figures. If you want to enlarge on this and propose a friendly amendment to include that...or when people are coming here, maybe we can certainly include that. But I'm trying to grasp where you want to go. I think maybe I haven't caught on. Are we talking about the second generation or the third generation?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I think it's important for those adopted kids or for expats working outside Canada who have an adopted child or who have kids outside the country, that the third generation would be....

We knew that was going to be a problem. You warned us about that. At that time, we wanted to deal with the lost Canadians issue, the war brides, and we didn't want to wait. Is that something that would come back to this committee?

I assume there would be discussions between Mr. Dykstra and Mr. Bevilacqua, but would those materials also be tabled here with the committee and be part of this study? I'm just trying to get clarification.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Is that a question to Mr. Karygiannis or are you just talking?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Well, it's to both the parliamentary secretary and--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

All right. Let's see how it unfolds.

Mr. Calandra, Mr. Bevilacqua, and then Mr. Karygiannis.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry, but I'm just a bit confused. I know this bill apparently doesn't come into effect until April 17, 2009, so I did avail myself of some of the committee Hansard from the last time this came up, which was last year. It seems like we've gone down this road before with the member. It was passed unanimously at this committee. Many of the members opposite actually praised Bill C-37. I believe that at the time Mr. Telegdi discussed a whole litany of previous Liberal ministers who hadn't done anything with respect to addressing the lost Canadians issue.

More importantly, I know we also talked about this, and Mr. Karygiannis did bring forward a number of recommendations at the time with respect to review, which were actually turned down by the committee. They've truly been all over the map on this one.

If you'll just indulge me, in the committee Hansard of last year, he asked, “Can we have a parliamentary review of the bill in four years...?” I believe it was turned down. He then asked for a review in three years. He didn't get that. Then he changed his mind again and put forward a motion that a parliamentary review happen within five years of the adoption of the bill, which was turned down. Then there was a motion for a parliamentary review of this legislation, again within five years, and also for a sunset clause to be added, which again was turned down.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I fail to see where we're going with this.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't know, but we'll see how he does.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm just wondering if he's read the whole thing, because he was--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

He has the floor, Mr. Karygiannis. I'm sure he'll reveal to us where he's going.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I will in the fullness of time, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Then back again, once five years didn't happen, four years didn't happen, three years didn't happen, and 180 days didn't happen, he actually went to two years again. And in his words, “Therefore, I would like to move that we enclose in here a parliamentary review...to come back to committee two years from today”. Again, the committee turned you down at that time.

Here is something I thought was important, because as I was reading some of the Hansard of this and familiarizing myself with Bill C-37--and again, Mr. Chair, if you'll indulge me--I'll quote from the Hon. Andrew Telegdi:

I have listened to Lucienne Robillard, and she was committed. I have listened to Elinor Caplan, who sat on this committee, and she was committed. I listened to Denis Coderre; he was on this committee and he was committed. I listened to Judy Sgro; she was on this committee, she was a minister, and she was committed. I listened to Mr. Volpe, and he was a minister, and he was committed.

But nobody ever got the job done. Apparently it was our government and our ministers who actually got the job done on Bill C-37, with the unanimous support of the members who sat on this committee last year. It seemed to have proceeded through Parliament very quickly, I noted, in trying to reference some of the information, some of the debates back at that time. It sailed through Parliament quite quickly.

So I'm confused as to why we would review a bill that hasn't even come into effect and is not scheduled to come into effect until April 17. Now you're asking the committee to review something before it has come into effect. You've been all over the map with respect to when you want it reviewed. You've gone from 180 days to five years to three years to two years to now, wanting it done before we've even had a chance to see the bill come into effect.

What I'm suggesting is that with all the evidence and all the good work that was done--and it was done by many of the same members who sat on this committee the last time--I noted that many of the members, who were actually the members opposite, particularly those who served on this committee at the time, were very congratulatory of all the hard work they had done to bring this bill forward. And the representatives from the department also were extraordinarily complimentary to the members who had worked so hard in crafting a bill that was so good, in bringing forward something that was unanimously supported by all the members, including Mr. Karygiannis.

I would suggest, Mr. Chair, that we might want to have the bill come into effect first. We might want to give it some time, and then from there.... And I'm not suggesting anything, because I may not be on this committee in the years ahead and I won't suggest what the committee works on two, three, four, or five years from now. But perhaps we should give it some time so the committee can digest what has happened after the bill comes into effect. I think that would be a better use of the committee's time as opposed to undertaking a review of what was a superb piece of legislation spearheaded by the former Minister Finley and unanimously supported by the members opposite and brought through the House of Commons and through the Senate very quickly. I think that after the 17th, when this comes into effect and people have the opportunity to see how this legislation will help many Canadians, we could at that point, four years from now but certainly not at this time, undertake a review then, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Mr. Bevilacqua, and then Mr. Karygiannis.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

In reference to the commitment made by the parliamentary secretary, Mr. Chair, of course I take it that the information would be distributed to every member of the committee. Can that be clarified?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra, could you respond just so that everybody is happy here.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It's pretty early to say in what form that information is going to be provided, but yes, certainly when a response is put together, it will be available to each member of the committee.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Before April 17?