Evidence of meeting #10 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Vice-Chair, Immigrant Investor Program, Desjardins Trust Inc.
I'll have to call the CEO.
Managing Director, Global Investor Immigration Services, HSBC Capital (Canada) Inc.
That's for somebody else in the organization to respond to, but it's a fair question.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
They're probably more interested in taxing Canadians than in taxing themselves.
Managing Director, Global Investor Immigration Services, HSBC Capital (Canada) Inc.
I once heard that banks are a very big tax contributor, more so than most industries.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
They are. They do very well.
In your experience, are there any instances of people who use the program to get into the country--they do what they have to do, they pay some money, they abuse the system, get their Canadian citizenship, and then just take off?
Managing Director, Global Investor Immigration Services, HSBC Capital (Canada) Inc.
Again, I personally I haven't experienced that in terms of the people we've dealt with. Life is life, and there probably is some abuse in every category. It's not something we have any statistics or experience with personally.
My own view is that it's a foot in the door. Citizenship, as some of you may already know, is not an easy threshold to get. You have to be here. You have to be here for three out of four years. You're checked. My understanding is that more and more, the courts challenge this, and unless you can show not just memberships and bank accounts but physical presence, you're not going to get it.
I do have clients who have been on the cusp of that grey line. I'm trying to get that famous 1,095 days in a four-year box. You do the math. It's very challenging. If you say that this program gives you citizenship, I say no; it gives you permanent residency. For citizenship, we'll see if you are going to graduate to that. Frankly, their kids will, but most of the main applicants won't.
They run empires, and they have to run the empire to keep the machine rolling.
Citizenship is not an easy thing.
Conservative
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I guess the question is in regard to the recommendations you made, Pierre, in your report.
One of the things you asked, for the benefit of the general public, was that immigration authorities prepare an annual report on the overall impact of economic immigration stemming from immigrant investors and other categories of economic immigrants.
You said that this report can provide statistics on initial investment spinoffs and effects in terms of projects funded, jobs created, and so on. I'm not sure how this actually helps to speed up the program. It's nice to do all these reports and reviews, but the goal is to get some recommendations on how we can actually expedite it.
The biggest one I've received today is that we should double the amount of money invested. Then we'll be able to cut the list back as quickly as possible. I just want to know why you would have included in your summary such a critical component. It doesn't seem to me that it would necessarily assist us in getting the numbers down.
Senior Economist, Analysis Group
This is apart from the process, so it's not meant to slow it down in any way. And the objective of this recommendation is.... As we were looking at the available data and analyzing the economic impact, we realized there was just not that much monitoring of any kind for all these categories. What we see from the survey that we did--with great effort, I must say--is that the contribution is significant and immigrant investors are a small component of that. Thousands of specialized workers and business entrepreneurs come in. I think the general public would benefit from knowing how much good these people do for Canada.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Okay, that is helpful. It is separate from the actual--
Conservative
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Okay.
We often hear about processing times making our program less competitive or less attractive. Some people, myself included, think there is a risk of a skimming effect occurring. The fear is that even if we achieve the targets in terms of numbers and there are still people waiting in line, they will not necessarily be the best applicants. Is this a fact you see in your own practice? Has the quality of the applications submitted declined since processing times increased?
My second question is more general. You made a number of recommendations. If you had to make one to the committee that would be incorporated in its report, what would it be?
Senior Economist, Analysis Group
I will let Mr. Audet and Mr. Major answer the first question.
The first recommendation I would make would be to expand the program. It is beneficial and positive for Canada, from all points of view. In comparison to other countries, we currently have a competitive advantage. We can't predict the future, but I recommend that something be done. In any event, even if we increased it significantly, it would not change much in terms of total immigration volume. But each additional family that enters Canada represents a significant benefit to Canada.
Managing Director, Global Investor Immigration Services, HSBC Capital (Canada) Inc.
In terms of the average client profile, I would say, on the contrary, that there are still a lot of very good applicants, who have very good business profiles.
As well, if I had to make only one recommendation, I would suggest that we increase the number of applicants admitted. But I'm not naive. I know the challenges the people at CIC are facing. I know they have a lot of work and numerous classes of applicants to manage. There is always the question of priorities. I understand that. We say that more has to be done, but there is a way of reducing the number of new cases coming in a little. How can that be done? By increasing the amount. It's time to do that. It would encourage greater commitment on the part of the client, from the outset.
Vice-Chair, Immigrant Investor Program, Desjardins Trust Inc.
I don't think the quality of the applications is in issue. It's simply that we lose some along the way. As I have always said, taking the capitalist route, we can ask a client for $400,000 and tell them it will take the time it takes. We can also ask a client for $800,000 and guarantee they will be here in 18 months. And we can ask a client for $1.2 million and guarantee they will be here in six months. I'm sure there would be clients for each of those categories. It's a little like in the case of passports, which were mentioned earlier. You can choose regular service or express service. It would be something to consider, eventually.
In terms of the recommendation, I think we have to take Canada's current economic situation into account. It would allow us to accept more investors. That is the priority, at this point. In three or four years, it will perhaps be different. We have to deal with the existing situation. As Pierre Emmanuel said earlier, even if we double the number, in terms of net percentage, it doesn't amount to double: 3,000 families a year total 10,000 permanent resident visas more or less. Compared to 250,000, that is not a lot. I think this should be considered carefully.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Thank you, gentlemen. We've given you a good workout. You're obviously very qualified, and we appreciate your expertise and time this afternoon. Thank you for coming.
This meeting is adjourned.