Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 22nd, 2010

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

If the threshold is raised, fewer people will apply, probably.

[Marc Audet]

In terms of the line, Canada's policy at present is first in, first out. Assume there are currently 15,000 cases waiting. Of those 15,000 applicants, some may lose interest. They will maybe already have gone to New Zealand when they are called. Assume there are still 10,000 cases. If we raise it from $400,000 to $800,000, what am I going to say to the ones who are investing $800,000? That they still have to wait three years? Will we have two systems? It's the government that will have to make that decision. The Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism has adopted Bill C-50, which allows gains to be made in terms of skilled workers. Are we going to do the same thing for investors? Are we going to make one pile for the $400,000 applicants and another for the $800,000? We shall see. That will all have to be considered together, while not forgetting to keep an eye on what is going on elsewhere. We also have to decide what we want in Canada.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Major?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Young.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Is there no time left for Mr. Major?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The time is up.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Major, I'm just doing the math on this. In the Canadian category, applicants have to stay 730 days in Canada during the preceding five years.

[Eric Major]

Yes. When you get approved, you get permanent resident status, and that's crystallized with the card. To maintain that status, hence to renew that card, you have to have demonstrated that you spent two years out of five in the country.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Paradis, in your study you showed the net benefit for immigration class immigrants. Did that include them paying income tax in Canada for an average of 140 days a year, or did it include income tax at all?

[Pierre Emmanuel Paradis]

No, it doesn't include income tax. In cost-benefit analysis, which is analogous to the approach we used, neither taxes nor subsidies are counted as a net benefit or an economic cost.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

So the net benefit you had of $1.9 billion to $2 billion for 2,500 economic class refugees was even without their income tax revenues.

[Pierre Emmanuel Paradis]

Exactly.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

That's because sometimes they're here and sometimes they're elsewhere. Is that correct?

[Pierre Emmanuel Paradis]

No. The impact we evaluated is a net impact. If this family isn't here, the impact just doesn't happen, whether they're here or not. So this is additional GDP to Canada, to put it as plainly as that.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Is it okay if I continue with that?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Sure.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Assuming all things being equal with our major competitors, what is it specifically about Canada's economy or current economic situation that will bring somebody to invest, be it $400,000 or $800,000? What would lead them to make that commitment to Canada? What right now specifically is encouraging people?

[Eric Major]

Mr. Audet pointed to this. The main point, in our experience, that drives people around the world to contemplate such a big decision is children, children, children. So education and the opportunity that Canada provides in terms of their education is number one.

It's a bit of a pyramid. Children and education are number one in terms of percentage. For our European clients, for example, it's quality of life; it's just lifestyle. They reach a chapter in their life where they want to enjoy being here. It's the opportunity also that North America affords, so our connection to the U.S. is also very important. Sometimes there's a little more to it than that, but those are the main three.

Would you agree with that?

[A voice]

Yes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I think Ms. Mathyssen asked a question about what specifically you offer the investor class immigrants. I didn't really get anything outside of a little bit of advice here and there. When an investor class immigrant comes to you, do you have a program specifically for them? What do you give them that you might not necessarily give another client?

[Eric Major]

I'm proud to say that at HSBC, hundreds of clients each year come to us. We explain the program and introduce them to one of our panel lawyers, who then mounts and compiles the application. We're still bankers. We let the immigration lawyers do their thing.

As part of our package, which is on our website and in our marketing propaganda, we also give them a tax session so that they understand the tax implications of moving to a country like Canada. We have landing services as well. We have an arrangement where we pick people up at airports and show them around neighbourhoods and schools. As I was saying earlier, a lot of them are still very young and want to remain active. They want to start businesses. So we put them in contact with the local provincial authorities, the business community, accountants, lawyers, and so forth.

It's a big part of my day job.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

You mentioned briefly tax implications. I'm assuming that many of the individuals who are coming here have already reviewed it and know what Canada's tax system is like. Is that something else that encourages them to set up in Canada, especially now, in light of the significant tax cuts we've made?

[Eric Major]

Indeed. There are even special programs, which we came to discover, related to certain industries, which make them very attractive.

It's not necessarily the connotation that they have initially, which is interesting, but I think there's quite a story to be told there.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Obviously, for business people and investors, how much tax they pay is very important. It was for me in my business. I was very surprised when I heard the chairmen of the banks all suggest that Canadians were prepared to pay more tax in order to do certain things in the economy. I wonder if the banks would also be willing to pay significantly more tax to help us offset some of the challenges we're facing right now.

[Eric Major]

I'll plead the fifth on that one.