Evidence of meeting #19 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you very much.
So is it true that in the past the way of controlling abuse vis-à-vis the refugee-seeking was more by the establishment of a visa instead of changing the whole thing and saying that a particular country was safe?
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
The visa has been the typical instrument to use. You also pointed to the safe third country agreement as another instrument that has been used, yes.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Okay. Do we agree that there is a major difference between having an agreement with a country under the umbrella of the UNHCR and defining what a safe third country is instead of saying that we have a policy of designated countries that would be safe? Is there a difference? Do you believe it's different?
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Well, I think before I answer that I want to make sure there's a clear understanding of what a safe country of origin is and a safe third country agreement; they are not the same thing. A safe country of origin--
Liberal
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
--designation is looking at the nationals coming from that country. A safe third country agreement, which we have with the United States, is not looking at nationals of Canada or the U.S., as you well know.
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
So those are the instruments we've used.
Sorry, but your question on the UNHCR was...?
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
No. That's my point. So there is a difference between them. Thank you for that. I agree.
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Well, we—
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
There's a difference between a safe third country agreement, which is the passage of individuals who seek refugee status by passing through the States and seeking in Canada, and... The fact the United States signed the Geneva Convention in 1967 means it is a safe country. But Canada remains with exemptions. We can still let some individuals—because every case is specific—pass through the Canadian border. Right? Do you agree with that?
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I agree with that.
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
However, we cannot go and sign safe third country agreements with other countries around the world.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Okay, but it would also be possible to sign some other bilateral safe third agreements with some other countries. Can we do that?
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
As I think you know well, because I think you were the minister at the time, the safe third country provision applies only to people coming across the land border, because the only way to verify, to be certain the person came from the United States to Canada, is at the land border. We cannot do that through air travel--
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, but--
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
But we can have some other agreement like the Schengen agreement in Europe, but vis-à-vis Canada, and instead put some Canadian agents in international airports to check everybody's passports to see if people are potential refugee seekers.
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It would be very difficult to do that, sir. You would need to be able to verify identity 100% and the only way you can do that—
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
No, the only way we can do that with a country with which we do not have a land border is to use a fingerprint, a biometric.
Director General, Refugees, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We cannot rely solely on travel documents as a means of verifying identity.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Okay. Here's my final question. Do you believe that your new mechanism, instead of the visa or some other issue, is to have a list of designated countries, that this is your way control the flow of future refugee seekers...?