Correct.
Evidence of meeting #26 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was csic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #26 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was csic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
Those appointments were done internally by the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants. All of the directors of CMI are either current or former directors of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants--one hundred percent. We've publicly questioned that in terms of conflict of interest, and double-dipping, if you will, in terms of the director fees.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Well, you've just answered my subsequent questions. Thank you.
I had some concern about that process, and obviously it sounds as though it's not transparent.
5:05 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
Just to add to the transparency issue, Ms. Chow asked several questions about the information in the CSIC financial report about CMI. There is quite simply one line, which says there was a transfer, this year, of $1 million to CMI. There is no other detail. We have asked repeatedly for such detail: it is not forthcoming.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
You've made several allegations about individuals being on both boards or double-dipping. Could you perhaps provide us with a chart that would outline that?
5:05 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
Certainly. Just as an example, the individual who was sitting in this chair, Mr. Imran Qayyum, who's the chair of CMI, is also a director of CSIC, as were the other two. They are both on the board of CMI. We could provide the names of the other directors. They're on their website as well. We could help you in terms of where they came from.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
The other concern I have with this particular legislation--and perhaps you have some suggestions in this field--is that it deals with so-called crooked consultants here in Canada. But my understanding is that many people have overseas operations in some of the busiest centres. They travel there regularly, set up offices and subsidiaries, and perhaps some of those illegal activities take place overseas, and there's no extraterritoriality built into this legislation. Would you like to provide any comments on that?
Perhaps I'll start with Mr. Creates.
5:05 p.m.
Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
Well, I'm not an expert on conflict of laws, but obviously the extraterritoriality implications are challenging. I don't think it would be possible to have Parliament pass laws here in Canada that would have focus and scope in terms of the criminal nature of the sentence, let's say, or the prosecution, unless people set foot in Canada.
That's why I was commenting earlier that it's not enough to have this piece of legislation. It's a great start. It's going in the right direction, and unfortunately we need it, but there has to be a greater investment in detection, monitoring, and even blacklisting. I know it's done to some extent now by both CIC and CBSA. For example, if the same address and the same shareholder in the same company keep showing up on application forms of residents and there are thousands of them, there has to be audit software that's going to capture this stuff. If I used my Mastercard--
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Just because of the limitation of time.... We got it.
In fact, I believe there are precedents. Canada has legislation that a number of years ago set a precedent, and I believe there's other legislation that deals with the issue of extraterritoriality. It's done with sex tourism--
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Because what I worry about in this legislation is that the intent is good--a lot of it is good--but all you're going to do is shift it abroad.
5:05 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
I think one of the key things--
5:05 p.m.
Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
Yes, that's a good concern. I think you're right about that.
5:05 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
I think the legislation does one thing, which is to give Canada the moral imperative and the moral authority to go and talk to other countries about their bad consultants, who cheat not only Canadian immigrants but also British immigrants and New Zealanders. To do effectively what the minister's been doing is to go around and say to his counterparts that we think they should enact similar legislation.
In the past and until Bill C-35 passes, individuals could come back to their own governments and say they were not doing anything wrong: they could fill in forms; they could provide advice, and there's nothing illegal about that under Canadian legislation. Now we will have the opportunity to do that.
It also gives agencies such as ours the opportunity to take our members, who advertise in many of the same places these ghost agents advertise, and talk to the editors of those newspapers and ask them if they realize what they're doing, if they realize they can prevent these individuals from putting out their false ads.
The last thing I'll say is that we hear the sensational stories. We do. We hear about all the gross, egregious things individuals do, but those things aren't the bulk of the problem. The bulk of the problem is that individuals do a few things every once in a while, and we have to let those individuals know that the cost of doing that is prohibitive and that they can't get away with it.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to begin by saying that I share your concern over the title of the bill for the same reasons you brought up, but also because, in my opinion, the title of a bill should not be used for political marketing purposes.
Unfortunately, if my understanding is correct, the rules of the House do not allow us to change the bill's short title, but we can at least strike it. I hope that the committee members will agree with me on removing the title.
How many members does your organization have, Mr. Mooney?
5:10 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
I apologize, Monsieur St-Cyr, I didn't get the translation. You're coming across in French only.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We must have a problem.
I'm trying to stop this clock. How do we do that?
5:10 p.m.
Past President, Canadian Association of Professional Immigration Consultants
The channel is coming through now. Thank you.