Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Sept. 29th, 2011

[Dawn Edlund]

About 165,000.

[Les Linklater]

It's about 160,000 or 165,000.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Yes.

We're basically looking at over 10 years if we keep approving the numbers as they are. I will tell you that my staff and I hear heartrending cases daily about people who've applied for their parents. They're waiting for them to come over. Ten years is a very long time.

I was interested in the line of questioning earlier about input, throughput, and output. I realize that there are these caps at the output stage, but you can only bring so many. Surely, because we've allowed this backlog to develop for one reason or another, there is another way to look at it; that is, to increase the number and accelerate the processing so that we can get this under control.

Is that not one option, to actually have additional staff, process the backlog, and get that done by removing that finite cap of 18,000? Is that one option?

[Les Linklater]

It certainly is an option that within the levels plan more admission space could be provided for parents and grandparents. Again, that's something that ministers will discuss and debate as we look at the plan for 2012, which will have to be tabled next month.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We've allowed the question to go, but your question is probably more appropriately put to a minister rather than to staff.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Okay. I will be looking to work with my colleagues on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm saying that that is a political question.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Well, Chair, the reason I asked it—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Stop the clock.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

—is that previously a question was pursued about inputs, throughputs, and outputs.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're absolutely right.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

From that was a conclusion that what we have to control is the input. What I'm putting out there is that it is not just the input that could be changed; it is also possible to change the numbers in the output. So I think it's a balancing question.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm not going to get into a dust-up with you. I'm simply saying that this question is more appropriately put to the minister, and I'd rather you move on.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you. I will do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Let's start the clock again.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

The next question—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but I have a point of order. With the greatest of respect, the members of this committee are entitled to put any question in the realm of CIMM—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, they're not. We're going to have it out—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chairman—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

—if you take that position.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

—I have the floor right now, I believe.

It's up to the witnesses, of course—and I see where you're coming from—to defer on a question that they feel is more in the realm of politics, but I have never been in a committee in which the chair told a member of the committee what they could or could not ask.

I would also point out that the chair was utterly silent when the exact same line of questioning was put by members on the government side and called for comments on exactly the same issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm just telling you, sir, that in this committee the chair has taken the position in the past—and if I overlooked it on this side, that's a fair shot.... I'm just saying that in the future I would prefer that political.... The minister will be here from time to time, and it's perfectly appropriate to ask political questions about his or her proposals to a minister, but those types of questions really shouldn't be asked of the ministry officials. As chair I have every right to say that it's inappropriate to ask those questions. You can challenge me if you wish, but that's my ruling.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Well, Mr. Chairman, to get to the specifics on this particular issue, I would call these officials experts in the way this system works. The question that was asked was whether or not it was possible to address a backlog by also expanding the staff. It wasn't asking them whether they thought it was advisable or whether they would suggest it; it was asking a functional question within their area of expertise, as to whether that would indeed be one way of dealing with the backlog, among others.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The point of order is over, and we have made a decision that it's a political question and is more appropriately asked of the minister.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'll challenge the chair, then.