Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 3rd, 2012

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

You had mentioned, with regard to iris scans.... In Canada we have an agreement with the United States with regard to a Nexus card that allows quicker access through border crossings. Does Germany have some system such as this with countries of the European Union?

[Christian Klos]

Not yet, but in the context of the so-called smart border initiative, which I mentioned before, it is also envisaged to introduce a system called the registered travellers program. Within this RTP, as we call it, will be the possibility for bona fide travellers to easily access the European Union. But we are in a very early stage of this political consideration at the European level.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Wilks.

Madame Groguhé.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to you all for being with us today.

I have a question regarding failed refugee claimants. Is an appeal procedure provided for people like that?

[Christian Klos]

According to constitutional law there is always the possibility to appeal the rejection of an asylum case. It goes through two or three instances, so it might take some time, but of course this is ensured due to constitutional reasons.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

So it is guaranteed under the Constitution.

There was mention of an accelerated asylum procedure for people arriving at airports without the required documentation. Could you tell us a bit about this accelerated procedure?

[Christian Klos]

Yes, we have a special procedure at airports, although due to European provision, the differences between both are not that big. Usually we identify the nationality of the persons concerned, and persons with manifestly unfounded applications can be kept at the airport. The asylum procedure is done quickly by judges of the local administrative court. It's a way of accelerating asylum procedures in clear cases of manifestly unfounded asylum applications.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Could you give us an idea of the approximate timeframe within which these granting procedures take place?

[Christian Klos]

As far as I'm informed, the average time.... If you want to have more detailed information, please send me something in writing, but usually it's done within one week.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I will definitely send you something.

As for the biometric system, we know that there can be glitches sometimes. What remedy do the victims of mistakes like that have, and what opportunities would they have to access the Canadian justice system given their status as foreigners?

[Christian Klos]

I'm not quite sure whether I got the question. I'll respond in the way I understood it.

Usually we do not rely only on biometric identifiers. We always take into account the classic way, the documents of the persons concerned. So we do not rely on electronic systems. These people are documented, and this is always the means of proof, which is valid and will be taken into consideration.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

The committee has been told that gathering data abroad would help visa officers make more informed decisions. What is your experience in the use of information in this way?

[Christian Klos]

Intelligence, as I mentioned before, is relevant to particular countries. The European Union member states have a list of these countries. Prior to a visa issuance, all member states are requested to check their information about specific visa applicants. They have one week's time to report back to the visa office where the application is lodged. Then a decision can be taken.

If there isn't any information, then the visa can be issued. If there are security concerns, the visa will be denied. Or as I mentioned before, the visa might be issued, but the entry will be controlled.

I think this covers the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for giving some of your afternoon to this committee. It will be helpful.

I'll follow up on the biometric passport and identifiers. I understand that we in Canada are very concerned about human smuggling, which could bring some terrorists and criminals into our country as well. I want to get your input on those kinds of issues.

Has the Government of Germany taken, or is it taking, some steps to ensure that genuine immigrants and refugees can come to Germany while they are able to keep all those criminals and terrorists out of the country? Are there are any suggestions you can make to this committee?

[Christian Klos]

Thank you for the question.

I think this is the challenge all the countries face that have a certain interest in people being able to work and live. Therefore, I think the problems in Canada are the same as in Germany.

We always try to clearly distinguish between those who want to enter legally and others. And for those who are here under visa obligations, the visa offices of the European Union are mainly compatible with the German ones. Here we clearly check whether the application is on good grounds and we issue a visa. The entry's then without further problems.

Of course, we always discover fraud. We discover misuse of the system. And here we have various techniques to identify it first. It's a long list, actually. It's about document security, assessment, profiling. This is the part of the visa office, and then of course it's about effective border control. There are trained personnel who filter those who come with no good reasons. Within the country there are of course fewer controls, as we do have an area here in Europe without inner border controls. There are only random checks at airports, at train stations, and then so on and so forth.

It's difficult. It's a mass phenomenon. There's no intention to introduce a major control regime, but there are certain places where you can actually find them. This is if it comes to work or residency permits. The administration here has a certain obligation to find out whether the person is eligible to work or for a prolongation of the visa. It's a whole range of measures, and also international cooperation, that are conducive to this end.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I have another question on this subject.

You have started using biometric passports and identifiers. Our minister has also said that soon we will be going in that direction. Do you have any data or numbers, or ideas at least, on whether you think that after the introduction of biometric passports and other identifiers you have been able to reduce the use of fake documents and identities people may have been using before you started this program? Has there been any reduction of those kinds of cases, or has it not mattered?

[Christian Klos]

I can clearly confirm the assessment that this has improved document security.

As I mentioned before, ID cards and German passports already had high document security. However, there have been trials to tamper with them or manipulate them and they were more or less successful, but in few numbers. But with this additional dimension and technical solution, for the time being it appears—let me put it that way—impossible to alter or manipulate German or European passports that follow the same document security.

This passport allows, really, the one-to-one check of the person at the border post. If it is supported by modern software, you can also exclude that look-alikes can actually use passports. This additional layer of security is really worth the effort.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Klos, that concludes our time with you today. I want to thank you and your colleagues for taking the time to speak with us about the process in Germany. It's been very helpful for our study concerning security.

I also want to tell you how impressed we are to see a Canadian flag and a German flag standing side by side. Thank you very much.

[Christian Klos]

Thank you very much. It was indeed a pleasure.

I wish you all the best.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Thank you to all.

This meeting is adjourned.