Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 30th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have 30 seconds, Ms. Sims.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Is that all I have? I'm so sorry.

For my 30 seconds, I think I will confine myself to a comment, then.

When I read through this, a lot of this language is to strengthen and improve this country's immigration system, or to protect the citizenship of Canada. Of course we want to protect the citizenship of Canada, but I'm looking for the kind of evidence that you have, hard evidence, that our current Bill C-11 policies, if implemented, would actually put Canadians at risk. I don't want to talk about the bogeyman or what-ifs, because those what-ifs exist when anybody arrives in this country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Sims. We have to move on.

Mr. Lamoureux.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Hill, I'm wondering if you could tell me, are you aware of the Sun Sea and Ocean Lady? I'm sure you are. Can you indicate whether or not there's anyone from those two ships who are still in detention?

[Peter Hill]

Yes, certainly. All of the 76 migrants from the Ocean Lady have been released on terms and conditions, and they're complying with those terms and conditions. Of the 492 who arrived on the Sun Sea, currently six individuals remain in detention. The others have been released on terms and conditions, and they also are complying with their terms and conditions.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

What allows or gives you the authority to be able to continue to detain those individuals more than a year, currently?

[Peter Hill]

Under the current system, the minister's delegate, who is a CBSA hearings officer, makes representations and argues on a case-by-case basis whether detention should be continued because the identity hasn't been confirmed, whether there is concern about danger to the public, or whether there is a reason to believe that the individual might be inadmissible for criminality or security. That case is made to the quasi-judicial Immigration and Refugee Board. It makes the decision whether or not to maintain detention.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Have you found that system to be dysfunctional, where it doesn't work?

[Peter Hill]

I can say that, in the experience of the Ocean Lady and the Sun Sea, there have been instances where the minister's delegate has not been satisfied that the identity of the individual has been determined and nevertheless, despite that situation, a decision has been made by a member of the IRB to release.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So out of the 76 from the Ocean Lady, for example, are you having any difficulty in tracking these individuals?

[Peter Hill]

They are complying with their terms and conditions, and their whereabouts are well known in the country. Most of them tend to be located in the Toronto region.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Is it difficult for you as an agency to be able to keep someone in detention beyond six months?

[Peter Hill]

Are you speaking generally?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Generally speaking, if you felt as an agency that there was a need to keep someone in detention for more than six months, is it difficult for you to be able to meet that need?

[Peter Hill]

CBSA has a very good track record in terms of arguing successfully for detention on a case-by-case basis, but the detention review requires that seven days, and 30 days, and then every 30 days thereafter, it demonstrates that reasonable activities are being taken by the agency to maintain detention.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So it would appear that the system is in fact working in that sense. This whole issue of processing times is not new. My question for Mr. Linklater is when did this actually start? How long has it been going on for?

[Les Linklater]

In terms of the hearings at the IRB?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes, in terms of lengths. We hear stories of people being here for four years, six years. How long has it been happening for?

[Les Linklater]

It really does depend on the ebb and flow of the number of claims that are received in any given year. For example, prior to the imposition of visas on Mexico and the Czech Republic in 2009, I think our intake was well in excess of 30,000 claims.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So let's say before 2005, was it a serious problem then?

[Les Linklater]

I don't have any historical information, but perhaps Ms. Irish could respond.

[Jennifer Irish, Director, Asylum Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

There was also a spike in the late nineties and that led to a backlog reduction strategy that was pursued by the board around 2002 to 2004. There have been various times where the flow of asylum claimants has been above the 25,000 mark.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So it's safe to say before the early nineties, mid-nineties it wasn't really an issue, and that it started to first appear in the late nineties?

[Jennifer Irish]

I don't have the data with me to make that conclusion.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I'm wondering if you can provide that information to the committee. It would be through the committee chair. I think it would be valuable information.