Evidence of meeting #35 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detention.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We're having someone come from Australia tomorrow. Did you know that?
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Yes.
I received information from the area. The inspiration for your law is probably coming from Australia. You have communication between the two governments.
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
Yes. The situation with Australia is very different, of course, because they're much closer to their nearest neighbour. Indonesia is a couple of hundred kilometres away, so it's no distance at all. It's much more straightforward for people to get to Australia in small boats.
NDP
Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I understand that in New Zealand the problem of immigration and refugees is not a real problem for you.
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
I think all problems are real problems within their own countries.
NDP
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
The global financial crisis means all problems are problems for governments at the moment, I think, but yes, I probably can't comment—
NDP
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
Less than in some other countries; possibly a greater proportion than in other countries. I don't know. Sorry, I have not done the comparison.
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
No. It's part of the vote for immigration overall, which is between $200 million and $300 million, so it is a proportion of that, and it's not the biggest proportion of that vote, but I can't tell you.... I can find the information for you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Thank you, Monsieur Giguère.
Mr. Opitz. Mr. Opitz is with the government and he's a Conservative.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Hello, and thank you for being with us today. It's fantastic. I know there's a huge time difference between us.
I'm just going to go to biometrics for a minute. Does your government collect biometric information?
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
We collect some biometric information and we have the capacity in our act to collect more, but we're still in the process of implementing that because we're getting a new computer system that will be able to deal better with biometrics than the current one.
So our current act enables us, or a representative of us, to collect and use face, fingerprint, or iris biometrics from foreign nationals who are applying to enter, remain, and/or depart New Zealand, including refugee and asylum applicants.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Great. So to the limited extent you're using it now, how do you find its effectiveness?
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
My understanding is that we have found it to be very useful, particularly in the determination of asylum claims. Subject to very strict controls that have been bilaterally agreed upon with our five country conference partners—Canada is one—we can do bilateral sharing of fingerprints and matching of fingerprints. My understanding is that we have had much greater hit rates than we anticipated of people who had already claimed asylum in other countries and in some situations had actually been granted asylum but had decided to move to New Zealand anyway.
Conservative
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
Not for biometrics, but we do have very strict entry and exit controls. It's the big benefit of being a country that has such specific borders. We've maintained entry and exit controls forever, as far as I'm aware, certainly for the last few decades, and our computerized matching of the border movements, the customs information, with the immigration information goes back to about 1994.
Conservative
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
We do share considerable information with the Australians but not strictly. We do not collect biometrics at the border, and even if we did, I don't know if we would share it. That would have to be subject to a protocol that was agreed upon by the privacy commissioners in both countries. But we do share some information with Australia.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Turning to human smuggling and human trafficking, what kinds of experiences do you actually have with it? You're saying nobody has landed by boat, but presumably they obviously come by plane, by other methods, and people still likely get in. Can you comment on your experiences with that?
Manager, Immigration Policy, Policy and Research Group, Department of Labour, New Zealand
You're correct, of course, that it's very difficult to get good information due to the nature of smuggling and trafficking. It's one of those things that the harder you look for it, the more you tend to find.
We do in fact have a certain level of overstaying within the country. At present probably about 15,000 to 16,000 people are unlawfully in the country, and we can tell that because of the controls we exercise at entry and exit. Many of those will be people who did intend to overstay and perhaps work unlawfully but who entered often with assistance, often with the help of people who could tell them what to say and provide them with information that would enable them to pass our controls.
With regard to trafficking, as far as we can tell, we do not have high levels; nonetheless, trafficking is obviously a massive concern because the exploitation of human beings that it represents is something that no country wants to be party to.
The major ways we combat both of them are largely internationally through the Bali process and internally through the best compliance processes we can manage. We have strong penalties in our legislation now for people who aid other people to knowingly circumvent our visa controls.
That's probably the general tenor of my comment.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
I'm sorry, but unless Mr. Weston wants to yield to you, our last speaker is Mr. Weston.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Dykstra, I thought you were going to take the next question.
