Well, our experience is quite well documented in the reports I did with Jackie Bhabha at Harvard University. If you have a look at the four reports we did entitled “Seeking Asylum Alone”, a study of unaccompanied separated children seeking asylum in Australia, the U.S., and the United Kingdom, those reports will give you a spectrum of three countries that took quite different approaches.
We found that the country that was probably doing it best was the United Kingdom, and at that time Australia was the worst. We have lifted our game somewhat, but I think the message I have for you is that, look, these measures do not deter. They cost a fortune. Financially they cost a fortune and socially they cost a fortune, because this foments dissent amongst people.
The trouble is, you see, that what happens with laws like this is that the general population sees the laws as targeting people of difference within society, so that's anyone who is of a different colour, who dresses differently, or who is of a different religion, and they can't tell, once you're out of detention, if you're—