Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, both witnesses, for being here today. Both of your comments are very interesting.
I will start with you, Ms. Stoyles. I've been around a little bit and have served in the past, and I have seen some really bad guys out in the world—war criminals and so forth.
I think we're in agreement that war criminals need to be prosecuted because of the atrocities they inflict on people around the world and the things that they do and the things they represent. It is reprehensible. We do need to have controls on our borders, and it's things like biometrics that will help us to identify and catch these guys. It's important to do that.
However, I do believe, where possible, we have to extradite these guys to the right places. It's wonderful to say we should do more and we should try more guys, but it's not so simple when the atrocities have happened in another country to get witnesses and that information.
I'm delighted that the Rwandan genocide is being examined in a couple of cases here, but that obviously took some time to do and it is very hard to put together. It's exceedingly difficult to get those witnesses, who may be frightened or scared or in some cases may be criminals themselves. We don't know. That makes it very difficult at the end of the day to be able to do this.
Though the Hague may not always be the fastest solution, it may oftentimes be the best solution. It is better equipped than most places in the world because that's where the subject matter experts and the tools to do the job reside. That's something we have to maintain.
We also have to maintain our information sharing with our allies to be able to get these guys at the borders. It's one thing to send somebody away, but it's quite another to be able to identify somebody and even hold them for extradition if they are sought in other countries.
I would say that is something Canada can do. If we do catch somebody at the border, we can hold them. We can extradite them through the appropriate processes. That person can face justice in the place where he perpetrated those crimes. That is probably most important, because the witnesses and the victims should be able to see justice happen before their own eyes, not necessarily a half a world away. In some respects when you allow that to happen, you then deny justice to victims because they don't actually see the carriage of justice. I'm very concerned about that.
Do you know, by the way, how many persons who have been ordered removed have been removed for criminality or war crimes?