Evidence of meeting #52 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
Thank you very much.
Once again, I do want to thank you.
One of the things I've realized as we've looked at this is that we do have provinces like Manitoba where they have said that they will actually be covering, on an interim basis, some of the people who are not covered right now. But I believe my colleague will be following up on that in more detail during the next round.
Thank you.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Go ahead, Mr. Lamoureux.
The clock has started.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I do appreciate both presenters' comments.
I want to go to Dr. Tyndall in regard to individuals who come as refugees to our country. Do we have a sense, in terms of a percentage, or can you give us any indication as to how many would be coming as refugees who would have some sort of medical condition? Can you provide comment on that?
Professor, University of Ottawa, and Head, Division of Infectious Diseases, Ottawa Hospital, As an Individual
Everybody who comes is entitled to a first examination, where a lot of things are screened. I would say that infectious diseases in this population are high. People have come from very bad situations. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I would think that well over 50% of people who are screened need some kind of diagnostic procedure or medical intervention, including treatment, so quite a high proportion of people.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
One of the diseases you referred to is tuberculosis. I have a tough time saying that word. That is something that is not identified right away. It takes time to identify that disease. Is follow-up required?
Professor, University of Ottawa, and Head, Division of Infectious Diseases, Ottawa Hospital, As an Individual
I think tuberculosis is the best example where these cutbacks will have the most impact.
If we're telling people their access to health care, treatment, and diagnostics is limited, they won't go to a doctor. Most people who come from developing countries were exposed to TB in early life. A disease comes up at no predictable time. A lot of people will present to their family doctor and say they haven't been feeling well for a few days, that they have a cough or a fever. That needs to trigger an X-ray and further diagnostic tests. Unless there's ongoing follow-up, we're bound to miss, or certainly have a delay in, our ability to recognize tuberculosis. That's already a big problem in Canada. People, especially first nations people, have very high rates of TB. We do our best to screen people, but TB is one thing that can really get out of hand if we don't have ongoing comprehensive care for people coming from endemic countries.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
The spread of disease is a security issue when individuals are coming into Canada. Quite often it takes a while to determine whether or not someone is infected. Your suggestion is that we need to continue to provide those medical services because it's in the public's best interest to do so.
Professor, University of Ottawa, and Head, Division of Infectious Diseases, Ottawa Hospital, As an Individual
It's definitely in the public's best interest.
From many aspects, even with many chronic diseases, we have great evidence to show that preemptively dealing with these saves us a lot of money and problems in the long term. Denying people basic medications for diabetes, hypertension, and asthma from a public health point of view makes no sense. If we're talking about infectious diseases, waiting until people present to the emergency room with their active tuberculosis means there's a very good chance they have exposed many other people. This is not something where they may have just infected their family members. This is the kind of infection that can be transmitted in shopping malls, bowling alleys, wherever people may go. It becomes very difficult to find people before they have already transmitted to others.
NDP
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
Mr. Muller, I want to follow up in terms of biometrics. It is something we are hearing a lot about from the government and other stakeholders, that this seems to be the answer to many of the issues related to security. Live biometrics include fingerprints and live pictures, from what I understand.
To what degree do you think Canadians should take comfort in biometrics as providing security?
Professor of Political Science, King's University College at Western University, As an Individual
I don't think any technology in and of itself provides security. It's the way in which it's used.
In the case of biometrics, I have studied the use of it in border security for about a decade now. There simply is not sufficient data to demonstrate that when in fact it is used it provides increased security. One of the problems is there is not a clear “problem” that it is being introduced to deal with. For example, with the U.S. visit system, there is no clear evidence that the United States is necessarily more secure. It simply is not there. The flow of migration, particularly at its southern border, continues with the use of AVATAR. Those things continue. Yes, you can create more profiling, but the extent to which that is in fact useful is not clear. There is no evidence.
Liberal
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Thank you very much. You are done.
Député Opitz.
Conservative
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I just want to clarify a question you asked, Ms. Sims, which was actually incorrect in terms of your assumption that refugees who come, whether it's one of these infrequent arrivals, would not receive interim federal health care. They would in fact receive interim federal health care from the federal government. You asked Dr. Tyndall to respond to a question, which he rightly did. The basis upon which you made your assumption is actually incorrect.
I think the record needs to be clear that interim federal health care is available to those who apply for refugee status here in Canada, especially when we have an arrival, as we did, with the Sun Sea and Ocean Lady. That still falls into place. The level of health care they receive is different from the level it was prior to the changes that we've made, but indeed they still receive interim federal health care.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
My understanding is that irregular arrivals arriving from a safe country do not receive any interim federal health care benefits until they have been accepted as a refugee.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Well, I'm not sure we've ever had an irregular arrival from a safe country, but if that were the case, in fact, they would receive it until they've had their determination.
Liberal
Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB
If you want clarification, I can provide some, if you like, on that issue.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
That's okay, because it's chewing up the rest of my time.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
No, in fact, it shouldn't chew all of it up. My statement might have, but not the response.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
In going over to you. I'll let you deal with it.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Muller, you're referring to the research you do. Is it academic research, or have you done field research on biometrics?