I'm not going to speak for very long, Mr. Chair, but I want to point out the reason that we won't be supporting it. There are a couple of things.
I'm not sure why the age of 13 has been used. If another country had done it, I guess that would be one reason, but it's really arbitrary, and I'm not sure it's based on any evidence. You can rest assured there would be court cases galore for those who are 13 years and one day or 13 years and two days. Why wouldn't they be moved into this? Why was the age of 13 chosen? By not choosing an age, the clause in the bill itself treats all permanent residents the same and is fair.
We've made this argument a number of times. I know there are hypothetical extreme examples that come forward. I haven't heard yet of an actual case in which this occurred under the current legislation.
We want to be consistent. We want to make sure that those who commit a crime have an opportunity for appeal. They'll have at least that opportunity with the Federal Court.
It comes back to one specific piece, and most of us have reiterated it time and time again. Even the opposition would agree that if you're going to come to Canada, regardless of whether you come at the age of two years or at the age of 40, if you don't want to be removed from this country, then don't commit a serious crime. If it isn't a serious crime, you'll be given consideration, obviously, but if it's a serious crime, you will face the potential of deportation. I don't think it can be better explained than being as pragmatic as that.
The only other point I would add to this is that I don't know why it is, but at a certain point.... Both my parents were immigrants to this country, and they didn't seek citizenship immediately after they arrived here or after the period of time. But within seven or eight years of arriving in Canada, they both applied for Canadian citizenship.
I fail to understand why a person who has lived here for 30 or 40 years doesn't feel it necessary to get Canadian citizenship. I'd like to think that it's another option they would like to pursue so they wouldn't have to.... If the person wants to lead a life of crime, he or she would probably be better off to become a Canadian citizen, believe it or not. Otherwise, the person is going to remain a permanent resident and will face what could potentially happen for committing a serious crime.