Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 25th, 2014

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, witnesses, for your presentations today.

My first question is for Ms. Duplessis.

Madam, I read your article entitled “Le regard de ROSINI sur l'immigration”, in which you wrote the following:

We consider integration to be a complex multidimensional process (linguistic, economic, social, cultural, political and religious) and a bidirectional one, since it engages the immigrant and his or her family as well as the members and the institutions of the host society. Moreover, this process is gradual, continuous, and individual, according to the individual's pace and history, and takes place within the framework of society and the family.

Could you shed some light for us, please, on how integration is experienced by women who are being sponsored?

[Marie-Josée Duplessis]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Menegakis.

I do in fact know the text you have in your hands very well, since I wrote it. However, I did say at the outset clearly that my testimony would not necessarily be about sponsored women, but more so about the expertise of the organization I represent, the Collectif des femmes immigrantes du Québec.

Regarding sponsored women, I can point out that we see them much less in organizations, since when they are sponsored, a network helps them out from the time they arrive. This causes a perverse effect. The advice that is given to them regarding integration into the workforce is often not well-founded. For instance, women are told to forget about their past careers and to begin again at the bottom of the ladder, or to take training as support workers in order to be able to find a job easily. If the same woman had gone to an organization that could assess her skills and take into account her schooling and professional experience, she could probably have been directed toward more satisfying and self-actualizing work. The fact that, generally, sponsored people do not have much to do with the integration services of the host society is a problem and often limits their future advancement possibilities.

In the statement you read, they in fact refer to a bidirectional integration process involving the host society and the new immigrants. This bidirectional process is more difficult in the case of sponsored women because often their harbour, their home port is the community, and sometimes remains the community. So often they do not benefit from the bridging role public or community services play.

Have I answered your question?

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Yes, thank you very much.

Can you tell us how in your opinion settlement services should be supporting women?

[Marie-Josée Duplessis]

Yes, I spoke about that earlier. Among other things they must take into consideration the immigration process, the experience as a whole, the loss of reference points and the fact that many of these women are for the first time responsible for everything in the family—housework, educating the children, family balance—aside from having to find a job and deal with the family dynamics that have been perturbed.

Often, the services offered by women's networks have a feminist approach that encourages women to be independent and take their destinies into their own hands. I'm not saying that the feminist approach is bad, but in the case of immigrant women, we must absolutely take into account their central, essential role and what the family and the community represent for them. So we cannot do interventions that are based solely on the individual's independence.

It is important to take into consideration the environment, the community and the family. That is what the Collectif des femmes immigrantes du Québec does in its activities. We really want to work with the person where they are. Quietly, things evolve from there. Newcomers adapt much more quickly than people think. A lot of changes happen, but the host society only sees the distance still left to cover rather than the distance that has already been covered.

So we have to work with the person where they are when they arrive and help them evolve gradually, taking the environment into account as well as the frame of reference the person has. It may be that that frame of reference is different from those that are valued in Canada. So we have to gradually help these two realities to converge, to meet, and help with the necessary mediations so that the transition happens. The point is not to lose one's culture of origin, but rather to see what compromises can be achieved, what changes are acceptable, and which are less so, and to work step by step on integration at all of these levels.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have a quick question for you, Ms. Ahsan.

Proxy marriages are legal right now. It's true that a couple who are married over the phone or even by fax can be eligible for the spousal sponsorship program. I'm under the impression this could or would lead to more forced marriages.

In any event, do you think this practice needs to be stopped? Should proxy marriages be banned from the spousal sponsorship program?

[Saman Ahsan]

Are you asking me?

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Yes.

[Saman Ahsan]

I'm not equipped with a legal background. I'm not a lawyer. I am working for an NGO that supports girls and young women's empowerment, but I can see there could be problems with proxy marriages. I have seen that there are cases which are totally valid, but again, there is a possibility of abuse of the system. I don't know if it should be banned, but I think there should be some protective measures to make sure that if there's a marriage, it is really a true, valid case and not just made up for immigration purposes.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

That's an excellent answer. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Blanchette-Lamothe.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

My first question is for Ms. Duplessis and Ms. Ahsan.

You have shown us how important the front-line services are, and how much they can contribute to protecting sponsored women. However, as we know, a lot of women do not go these organizations. Indeed, often the most vulnerable women do not know how to turn to these external resources or to find these services.

How do you think the most vulnerable sponsored women should be directed toward these front-line services? More specifically, how could the government ensure that these women draw on the front-line services they need?

[Saman Ahsan]

I am an immigrant, and when I came in I got a lot of support in finding a job. Emploi-Québec helped me even before I came in. I was part of teleconferences looking at my background, my qualifications, how I could use them when I came.

Similarly, when a new immigrant is coming in as a spouse, before and after he or she comes here, there should be those kinds of services, that outreach. The immigrant has to take part in those services and sessions to learn about his or her rights, the legal situation in Canada, in a very simple way.

The government can make some simple worksheets, handbooks, which would help them to understand the laws as they would apply to them. What do they do if they are abused? What are their rights if they are abused? Would they be sent back to their home country if they report abuse? It's questions like that. They should be given to young women when they come into Canada.

There should be a continuation of the process, where social services providers stay in touch with them and build a relationship with them and also help them to get skills that allow them to express themselves, to learn the language, to find local supports. Usually women like to find support in their community, but they need to be really helped so they can find those supports and reach out to them and know where they can go if they need support.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Ms. Duplessis, did you have something to add?

[Marie-Josée Duplessis]

When we talk about isolation, it is redundant to say that the main objective is to reach those women. The Collectif des femmes immigrantes du Québec is a small organization that works in the street a great deal. We distribute information about our services in the subway and at bus stops. We also go to religious organizations and community groups and explain our services to them. I would add that we also...

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Forgive me for interrupting you. I simply want to make sure that you understood my question.

I'm trying to find out if you think the government could do something to bring together these vulnerable women and organizations like yours. Could the government do something to help you come into contact with vulnerable women?

[Marie-Josée Duplessis]

Thank you for putting me on the right path.

Yes, the government could do something. For instance, when live-in caregivers arrive in the country, they are given a list of available resources concerning works standards and the associations that can support and help them. We could do something like that for sponsored women.

In Quebec, the Department of Immigration and Cultural Communities, which is responsible for the integration of immigrants, offers group sessions, one of which is entitled “First Settlement Steps” and the other “Integration Objective—Understanding the Quebec Labour Market”. Various themes are discussed at these seminars.

The problem is that the participants have to register to attend them. Currently, when newcomers go through the immigration wicket at the airport, they are told about the service, and they are invited to go to the website in order to register.

In the past, the immigration officer used to register the newcomers for these information sessions. So the immigrants—this would include sponsored persons today—were told to go to the information session on such and such a day at such and such an organization to attend “First Settlement Steps” and to go another day the following week to the next information session, “Integration Objective—Understanding the Quebec Labour Market”; these sessions lasted 24 hours.

If we did that, the newcomers would be put in contact with the community services and they could even develop a network amongst themselves to help each other out.

So we should not stop at providing information to the newcomers, we should also register them for these resources. When you have just arrived, and you reconnect with a member of your family, there are so many things to say, and people forget to register. They feel that is not important, and they depend on their spouse or other relatives to guide them after their arrival.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you very much. That was very interesting.

Ms. Molina, I would like to ask you a few questions.

You talked about language and education. A little earlier, one of the witnesses said that language and education should not be a barrier or a requirement, but that the government should rather adapt so as to communicate the information properly. For instance, the government could use a different language or hold individual meetings, rather than communicating in writing.

Do you agree with those suggestions?

[Claudia Andrea Molina]

Completely. I think that is a very good idea.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

I have a question about the length of time it takes to process the sponsorship files of spouses.

One of the witnesses seemed to suggest that the processing time was possibly a factor that could make them vulnerable. He said that if the wife had to wait three years, for instance, before being able to join her husband in Canada, she could possibly be more vulnerable in her country of origin.

As a lawyer, do you have an opinion on that issue?

[Claudia Andrea Molina]

Yes. That can be a problem depending on what is happening in the woman's home country.

A woman's right to have a family is a protected, sacred and fundamental right in international law. Women today have a tendency to have children later in life, for instance in their 30s or after they finish their schooling. However, when my clients get married they are often in a big hurry to have children. The immigration process becomes an obstacle. Some of my clients become very stressed out. They wonder when they will have medical insurance and when they will be able to begin to plan their pregnancy. Having a child is their life project, and when that project becomes conditional, it is quite dramatic. In my opinion, that aspect has been neglected by the government. I think that the government should indeed have a look at that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for being with us.

I'd like to begin with a question concerning the rules the government intends to impose concerning the language test for spouses. I believe Ms. Molina talked about that.

Are you in favour of that test for spouses, or not? For my part, I am completely opposed to it. In my opinion it is not up to the government to tell Canadians whom they should marry. That said, I would like to put that question to all three of you.

Ms. Ahsan, what do you think?

[Saman Ahsan]

Coming from a human rights and social justice background, I would be against such a test.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

That's a very good answer, thank you.

What do you think about that, Ms. Duplessis?

[Marie-Josée Duplessis]

I am against it. I don't agree that it should be a selection factor. However, it is important to offer francization services when the person lands here.