I wanted to explain that through the example of one of my colleagues and her family, because for refugees in particular, that time when they have no human dignity, when they have been reduced, is a very crucial period. It is harmful to Canada, and it is also contrary to our obligations under the convention for refugees, if we don't facilitate their integration and their naturalization in Canada. In the case of that family, time was very short.
But unfortunately what we're seeing now is that the time just for the process of citizenship is taking two or three years. If you add to that more time, not counting the time the person has legally been in Canada prior to being a permanent resident here, going through their refugee claim, for example, or in some other kind of immigration programs, of which we have many more now.... Increasingly that seems to be the way we are acquiring immigrants, through immigration programs that are almost two-step or probationary programs. We're not recognizing the contribution of these people to Canada. They want to be here. They are here working, paying taxes but can't vote. Refugees can't even get a passport.
So it's extremely important for refugees in particular. In some ways some of the most talented people come to Canada through the international student programs and then through the Canadian experience class. One of my other colleagues is in that boat. She's been in Canada seven years. She just qualified and got her permanent resident status, and now it would be another four years before she would be able to apply for citizenship. Under the current law, in two years she would be able to do it. It's a democratic deficit.