Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 14th, 2014

[R. Reis Pagtakhan]

We'll be talking bout revocation for terrorism, espionage, and treason, so it's not revocation just because I happen to be a Chinese Canadian. It's for specific offences, and very serious offences, and the citizenship can be revoked by the minister. I don't have a problem with that for this specific reason: that or those three offences, the individual has the opportunity to be presumed innocent, then has to be proven guilty under a court of law—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Actually, no. From reading what this other immigration lawyer presented to the committee, it's the—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Mr. Menegakis, on a point of order.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Madam Chair, I think if we ask the witness a question, he should be allowed an opportunity to respond to it first, without cutting him off.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

That's your opinion, but Madam Sitsabaiesan can use her time as she wants, and I would ask her colleagues on that side of the table to not be noisy during her time.

Thank you.

Madam Sitsabaiesan.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

I respectfully disagree. I think we should allow the witness to respond to a question once the question is asked.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you, Mr. Menegakis.

You can disagree, but that's how I rule it. Madam Sitsabaiesan has the right to use her time as she wants.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

If you ask a question to the witness, you should be respectful and ask—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Thank you for your opinion, Mr. Menegakis

Madam Sitsabaiesan.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Is that your ruling?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Yes.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Then we will challenge that ruling.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

There's someone challenging the ruling of the Chair.

So the question is whether the chair's decision should be sustained.

(The chair's ruling is overturned)

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

The chair's ruling whereby Ms. Sitsabaiesan may use her floor time as she likes has not been sustained by the committee. So Mr. Pagtakhan will have a bit more time to answer Ms. Sitsabaiesan's first question.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

How much time do I have left now?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

You have two and a half minutes remaining.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Monsieur Pagtakhan.

[R. Reis Pagtakhan]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Briefly, the way I look at it, if you are convicted of one of those three offences in a Canadian court, then the decision by the minister is okay, and for this reason. There was a decision a couple of years ago—maybe it was last year—by the Supreme Court of Canada in Pham that dealt with criminal convictions in an immigration context. In that decision, the Supreme Court of Canada said that you can take into account immigration consequences when you look at whether you can take away Canadian permanent residency for criminal convictions. I'm—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Pagtakhan, I'm going to interrupt you, because I only have less than two minutes left at this point and we're not talking about the subject matter before us, which is the subject matter of Bill C-24. You're talking about the revocation of permanent residency rather than citizenship at this point.

While I still have the floor, Madam Chair, I'd like to move a motion.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe]

Go ahead.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Actually, I can be kind to the committee.

Would you pass this down, please?

Madam Clerk, I have copies for you.

Madam Chair, in English, my motion reads as follows, and the French is provided as well: that, notwithstanding the motion—

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Excuse me. I would like to get it first, please.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

They want to read it, Madam Chair. Please let me know when I may continue.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

We're good. We have it now.