Of course, measurement is always a little tricky because of variables that come in to determine success. If you have a recession, obviously the outcomes are going to be very different from during a period where there's job expansion and so forth. I guess I would start by saying that measuring things directly is not an easy task. However, I think if we actually look at integration in Canada, even with greater difficulties of immigrants in terms of matching their skills to jobs and so forth, I think we still see a lot of achievement that has been happening.
I mentioned the notion of the second generation, which also means that we need to take more long-term views. The children of immigrants, in almost all cases, are doing exceptionally well.
Also, in terms of settlement programs, I think government has to provide some funds to collect the kinds of data that are necessary to do these sorts of measurements, and also to fund studies that are done at a more macro level as well as at the local level. This would involve both quantitative and qualitative types of indicators. Right now we tend to do a lot of counting of things like bums in seats, but we don't look so much at the quality of outcomes. That's a much more difficult type of task.