Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 5th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Aspin.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses. I'm very grateful for your testimony here.

There has been a great deal of talk about the fact that laws already exist to protect people in this country. Given that, is Bill S-7 a legal document or is it a political document?

[Suzanne Costom]

Who wants to touch that one?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Suzanne Costom]

I'm going to tread carefully here.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We all do.

[Suzanne Costom]

One can't help but wonder what the purpose is when a bill is proposed that seems to either address an inexistent problem, or provides tools that are unnecessary because they already exist, or seems to provide inadequate tools.

What we really need if we want to stop violence against women and children is more awareness and funding. We need to sensitize children from a very young age, as soon as they come into the country, to the shared Canadian values that we all embrace and enjoy.

One wonders, in a case like this, what the purpose of the law is. I'll only say that it doesn't seem to address a legal problem, and I'll leave it at that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Are there any other brave souls or should I go on? All right, thank you very much.

Ms. Douglas, it's good to see you again. You talked about the best way to end violence. This bill purports to do that and yet there are things missing. You referenced missing and murdered aboriginal women in your remarks. I wonder if you could expand upon that with this notion or goal of reducing violence against women.

[Debbie Douglas]

I think the case of missing and murdered aboriginal women and the ongoing call for a public inquiry so we can take a look at the root causes speaks to the purpose of a bill like this. So that's my answer to your other question.

We strongly believe that violence against women is ended by paying attention to things like women's economic agency, ensuring that women have the kinds of supports they need to be able to leave abusive relationships, and ensuring that women, especially poor and racialized women, including indigenous women, have the wherewithal to be able to participate fully without fear of violence or being put in a position where they encounter violence.

That is not to say that violence only happens to poor women—not at all. But we do know that for women who are poor and do not have the necessary economic resources, their cases tend to go unrecognized. They are the least likely to report violence because of their history of engaging with the criminal justice system. They are often re-victimized, so they do not put themselves in that position, or they may not even have access to the system. In the case of immigrant and refugee women, it's often a language issue. But we strongly believe that the way to address violence against women is to ensure that we have the services in place to educate men and women about women's rights and to address issues of patriarchy, regardless of which cultural groups they belong to.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

And I'm assuming that affordable housing, child care—

[Debbie Douglas]

Affordable housing, advanced education, entrepreneurial supports, labour market participation supports and child care are the kinds of supports that women need to participate fully.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

This is a general question. Should we be concerned about approaching the issue of domestic violence through the lens of immigration and criminal law?

[Debbie Douglas]

I think that we need to approach violence against women through criminal law. By approaching violence against women through immigration we create double jeopardy, as I said. Immigrants are punished for being in violation of our criminal law and then we deport them. Violence against women is wrong regardless of who commits it, regardless of the motivations or the reasons behind it. The Criminal Code is the right place for us to address issues of violence against women, not immigration law.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Douglas.

Mr. Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for appearing before us.

This is obviously a very sensitive issue. This bill does not address an inexistent problem. The problem does exist. It exists in our communities right across the GTA, certainly across this country. We've heard many witnesses speak to the need for the legislation, the need for an additional tool for law enforcement to go after those who perpetrate violence, against women in particular.

The title of the bill that a few of you have taken exception to, “the zero tolerance for barbaric cultural practices act”, is calling a spade a spade, if I might take a couple of words from Mr. Aspin. They are barbaric practices, and they are rooted in culture in some communities. The bill does not specifically highlight a particular ethnic group or culture. I believe this happens in many cultures. In fact, in my office and in my life, I have been the recipient of information from people who have been abused many times, and I've tried to guide them the right way to get a resolution to their plight.

Certainly any comment or insinuation that the title of the bill incites some kind of a fervour against particular cultural groups is a stretch at best. These are barbaric practices; they're barbaric cultural practices.

I would argue that when a young girl is born in Toronto General Hospital today—or 14 years ago—and finds herself in a situation where her family says, “You're going to be married to the person I have promised you to when you're 14. That's our culture; that's our way, whether you like it or not”, that is barbaric and unfair to the young lady.

I don't know how I'm doing for time here. Am I almost done?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

If you're tired, we can stop.

You have about a minute left.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

If I have a minute left, let me ask a quick question to Ms. Shahida.

Ms. Shahida, do you believe that this bill is necessary, in giving an additional tool to law enforcement to assist them in apprehending those who are perpetrating such terror, particularly on young women?

[Arooj Shahida]

Yes, I do.

It can prevent many people from becoming victims. It can be a threat to those potential criminals who could otherwise commit this crime if this legislation were not there. It will definitely create fear in their minds. For those potential criminals who are not that strong, or others who commit crimes in any capacity or circumstance, at least this legislation could be a threat to them.

I believe in more prevention. This legislation is more for punishment, more for threatening them. There should be more awareness about this bill as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Shahida, Ms. Douglas, Ms. Costom, Mr. Edelmann.

All of you have made excellent contributions to the committee, and on behalf of our colleagues, I thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.