Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 28th, 2013

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you to the minister and his officials for being here.

I think it was Mark Twain who originated the phrase, “Lies, damned lies, and statistics”, which I think characterizes well the highly selective exchange between the minister and Mr. Menegakis.

This is not a question. I just want to repeat for the record that while backlogs and waiting times are related to each other, what matters for real people is waiting times. Under the watch of this government, waiting times for the family class increased from an average of 13 months in 2007, which is when this government was in power, to 34 months in 2012—and even longer if you take the last 12 months. And the waiting times today are five years or more for the family class, the investment class, and entrepreneurs, and three years-plus for live-in caregivers, etc. So those are the true facts coming from the government's own website. But I don't want to belabour this point because we've had this exchange before.

My main issue I want to raise is my contention that the United States is obviously way bigger than Canada and has advantages over Canada, but Canada, as a smaller country, can only compete with the United States if we are nimbler and more agile. But in terms of admitting visitors, I would argue the U.S. is far more agile than Canada, which has deleterious effects on our economy, on our business, on our tourism industry, on families, etc.

Recently we saw the ambassador from either Mexico or Brazil, or both, complaining in the press of the huge forms that people had to fill in to come to Canada, which ask questions like where your mother was born and other irrelevancies. I know the United States interviews visitors, but we've compared waiting times, and for the countries I've examined, the waiting times are significantly longer for Canada. The worst cases would be 50 days for Islamabad versus 16 days for the United States; 37 days for Colombo versus 3 from the U.S.

I know we have security concerns, but the U.S. had 9/11, not us, and we seem to be far worse than they are. Given the damage this does to our economy, to new Canadians, and to our tourism industry, why are we so much worse than the Americans in allowing visitors into this country?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

First of all, we are not necessarily worse, Mr. Chair.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Well, that's what the numbers show.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

No, but let's not gloss over the intrusiveness of an interview. Most visitors to Canada do not undergo an interview; everyone does in the case of the United States. In many cases, people wait up to three months for that interview to take place. That is in addition to the other paper-processing times, document-processing times, which can be quite substantial.

There is room for improvement on our visitors' side. None of us is disguising that fact. You saw some of the numbers in processing times move during the withdrawal of services we had from one of our public sector unions over the summer. We are sensitive to growth spikes in demand in different parts of the world. We can't necessarily move resources around as easily as we would like to do. We are studying this, and we want to continue discussing potential improvements with the committee.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay, if I could—

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

But can I just complete the answer? We have online applications—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Well, my time is running out. I have the numbers here showing that U.S. times are substantially [Inaudible--Editor] than Canadian times—

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Yes, U.S. times are slower, I agree—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I don't think that's acceptable for a small country, which has so many disadvantages relative to the giant of the world, the United States.

But I want to ask one question about the Philippines and Typhoon Haiyan. One of your officials, Diane Burrows was here. I asked her whether the government would release to Parliament the information about expedited entry for Filipinos, because we applaud the sentiment but we think from the experience of Haiti that the results have not always been good. So will you tell us the results? Diane Burrows said:

I certainly hope that will be the case, sir. That will be something that we would put forward to the minister for consideration. We're prepared to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're running out of time. Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Will you do that? If so, when, and what information will you give us?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

The results are good. Manila is truly processing those applications we wanted them to give priority to. If anyone has information on applications that haven't gotten priority but deserve it, they should let us know.

On visas, online applications, they're now 30% of our workload. Multiple-entry visas are going to become more and more prevalent in our system. If we have backlogs, Mr. Chair, across the board, it is because those backlogs started under a Liberal government. This is what we never hear acknowledged by Mr. McCallum or other Liberals. It's a nightmare we inherited and we are trying to awake.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm going to stop there, Minister, and move on to Mr. Weston.

Mr. McCallum, you'll have to withhold yourself.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks as well to the minister for being with us here today.

I have two questions, which are directly related to those asked by Mr. Cash and Mr. McCallum, but first I would like to say this: regardless of the government in power, it is always good for the people for a minister to have professional training and experience that correspond to his work as a minister. Given your experience in the diplomatic service, Canadians are confident that you will be able to carry out the projects you have discussed today.

My two questions concern the allegation that we have not improved processing rates or times. What has been the acceptance rate of applications submitted to your office in Chandigarh since 2006? I hope you have that information to hand.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Yes, I have it, Mr. Weston. Thank you for your question.

Since 2005, we have tripled the number of visas issued by our mission in Chandigarh. Only 3,300 visas were issued in Chandigarh in 2004 compared to more than 17,000 in 2012. The approval rate also rose from 34% to 53% between 2004 and 2012.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Does that mean there was an improvement or growth in the approval rate? What is the difference between the approval rate and the number of visas actually issued?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

The overall approval rate for visitor visas has increased to 82%, which is a very high rate. Furthermore, since the improvements we made were introduced, that rate has not stopped rising. Despite the challenges we face, we issued more visitor visas in 2012 than ever. The growth rate for 2013 is very dynamic and rising sharply.

We have also removed the visa requirement for 11 countries such as, very recently, the Czech Republic. As you have noticed, Canada now has many more foreign students and temporary workers, who are governed by our system in that area, tourists and business people. We are proud of the growth rates in all these areas.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Cash just said that most people are not concerned about the backlog, but that they are concerned about the processing delays. I heard that someone on a talk show in Vancouver said

that processing shouldn't take much time beyond the given limit. Visitors' visas take only 14 working days from New Delhi and Chandigarh, while super visas could take eight to 10 weeks. Family class visas from India take eight to 10 months, but could be much faster.

I think it is extraordinary that the processing time is so short. Would you like to say something on that subject?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

We are providing improved service around the world. In Mexico, there is an express lane for business people, students and tourists. People are increasingly using it. The same is true in Delhi. We also have major initiatives that are a great success in China. One-quarter of visitors who come to Canada on a visa come from China. Most obtained their visas in Beijing.

We are proud of this innovative spirit, which is apparent throughout the system. We are proud that economic immigration and applications are being processed faster than ever. However, we cannot conceal the fact that there are still backlogs. We have not eliminated them. We have cut them in half, or perhaps a little more, but we must introduce initiatives to eliminate them completely. We will definitely be having important discussions with you on that topic.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

It's certainly not for me to give advice to my friends in the Liberal Party, but I always think it's a mark of credibility when one can simply say, yes, you've done well, instead of criticizing where no criticism is due. Then when in fact there is valid criticism to be had, it's more credible.

I just can't understand the point of Mr. McCallum's statements. How can anyone deny that there have been clinical, clear improvements in processing times, which continue under this government?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

People can deny, but no one can deny it if they've looked at the facts. Compare the first five years in office of the Liberal government to our first five. They cut landed family members by 38%. We increased landed family members by 8%.

We have increased the annual number of family sponsorships by thousands. You would never know that from what one hears from the Liberal members. They cut immigration by 32% during their time in office. We increased immigration by 7%, despite the world's worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

On settlement services, they froze service for 13 years. They froze services to help our immigrants integrate. This is something that the Liberal government paid lip service to, talked about, but did nothing to actually implement. In our time in office we have tripled settlement service funding to $600 million across the country. We are renewing it. We're kicking the tires. We're making sure that the provinces and our settlement agencies across the country are offering the best service to make sure immigrants get to work quickly, orient themselves quickly, find the services they need and realize their individual and family potential in this country.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Ayala, it's your turn for five minutes.

[Paulina Ayala, NDP, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us today, minister.

Our colleague just asked you a lot of questions about visas. We see in the budget that the proposed changes generally focus on security. I would like to know how the confidentiality of the information that Canada receives from all these people filing visa applications from various countries will be protected and guaranteed in view of the fact that, in the present circumstances, Canada visa application centres, private organizations, are the first to gather the information. This is not currently Immigration Canada's responsibility.

I am going to tell you what troubles me. Canada currently entrusts information centres with very important information from citizens around the world. When those people apply for visas, they trust that Canada will keep their personal information confidential. For a visa application, you have to provide your bank account number, credit card number and family history.

Since private companies control this, what does the government think it will do to prevent potential abuses, particularly thefts of information?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

All the initiatives and programs we are introducing at the department are developed, implemented and managed in close cooperation with the Information Commissioner and the Privacy Commissioner. Canada has very high standards for the protection of personal information, and we meet those standards at our department.

[Paulina Ayala, NDP, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

The departmental officials who appeared on Tuesday told us that the expression of interest and the visa application first went through the Canada visa application centres, which are private organizations that work in each country together with the Government of Canada. The Department of Immigration takes over the files once those organizations have verified that the information contained in the documents is truthful.

So this means that the information is forwarded first to private organizations in every country, not here in Canada. When I was in Venezuela last year, the ambassador confirmed that his applications did not in fact go through his institution first, but rather through a private organization. That is a problem.

Abuses have already occurred in England, where the same system is in use. So this is troubling. We are investing in security, but we could be exposed in the long run to civil lawsuits from other countries for failing to protect their personal information. This troubles me.