Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 19th, 2018

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

What are you going to do to support them?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I just explained that we've provided new money, $74 million in budget 2018, to enable them to do faster processing.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

Mr. Anandasangaree, go ahead for five minutes.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I do have an issue with the term “illegal”, just for the record. I think, just based on Mr. Tilson's question, that if 69% of the people who come irregularly are accepted, they presumably become legal at that point. I think we perhaps may be making a presumption that they're illegal, and I think it goes to the characterization of asylum seekers as undesirable and criminal, so I do, to some extent, take exception to Mr. Tilson's assertion that people who are crossing are illegal.

To our point with respect to settlement services, I want to talk about the issue of legal aid funding. It's an issue that's been quite important to many refugee claimants who have had limited support from the legal community. I'm wondering how your proposed funding in the 2018 budget will assist them in obtaining proper legal representation for their cases.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Legal aid funding for refugee claimants is extremely important because, as I said, it allows them to put their cases together. It allows them to move quickly to present their case in front of the Immigration and Refugee Board, which also reduces appeals and reduces processing time. We believe that's an important service to provide.

Last year we had provided $4 million to Justice Canada so that they could strengthen the refugee legal aid system. This year I believe we've also provided additional money, but I'll let my officials give you the details on that.

[Christopher Meyers]

There is a $4-million transfer to the Department of Justice included in the supplementary estimates (C) to supplement its programs and its funding for legal aid systems in three different provinces—British Columbia, Ontario, and Manitoba. That's in the supplementary estimates (C).

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, the proposal to resettle 1,000 very vulnerable refugees from conflict zones, I think, has been received quite well by many in the international community. I was in Geneva last week and had a chance to meet with the UNHCR representatives for South Asia and the deputy director, and they were quite pleased with that commitment to do this.

Can you elaborate as to what criteria we're going to be using for this resettlement, and whether you're looking specifically, for example, at those who are affected and who fled Rakhine State in the last six months?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The budget allocation is $20.3 million over five years. This allows us to create an additional 1,000 spaces targeted to vulnerable women and girls. This is 1,000 spaces above and beyond the levels that we had in terms of pre-budget numbers. This means that Canada is able to provide an additional 1,000 spaces for vulnerable women and girls. We already have an urgent protection program, in collaboration with the UNHCR, for referral to us of cases of very vulnerable women who are in extreme danger, but the numbers there are not that high, so some of these numbers could certainly be used to bolster that.

In addition to that, this also allows us to more robustly respond faster to emerging crises such as the Rohingya issue and to the other protracted refugee-producing conflict zones such as Congo, where women, girls, and children have been exploited over this years. This allows us to have that flexibility and, of course, every extra space we get in the levels for vulnerable women and girls is welcome, so I'm very happy with this allocation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. O'Toole, for five minutes.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'm very confused, because in early March of last year, your deputy minister, ahead of your meeting with Secretary Kelly said there was an “urgent need”—her words—to revisit the safe third country agreement because of the flow of refugees or claiming refugees or illegal crossers that had started a few months earlier following Executive Order 13769.

You appeared before this committee 10 days after meeting with Secretary Kelly, and your submission on supplementaries was actually that you were asking for a net decrease in funding for your department, even though your deputy minister was saying that there was an urgent need to revisit the safe third country agreement. In repeated questioning from my colleague Michelle Rempel in 2017 and earlier this year, you've suggested that there's no need for or you haven't started discussions with the United States on fixing the loophole in the safe third country agreement.

In October of last fall, as I said earlier, you suggested to this committee that your department was handling the processing and the illegal border crossings in Emerson, Manitoba, and in Quebec through being “nimble” internally. We now know that it's hundreds of millions of dollars.... Have you been straight with parliamentarians on this, Minister?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

There are three questions in there—

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

No, there aren't three.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Which one would you like me to start with?

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Any illegal crossers are exploiting a loophole in the safe third country agreement. Would you agree with that? They're not showing up at a designated port of entry or border stop. You yourself, Minister, have gone to discourage people under temporary protective status from using this type of illegal entry. Today is the first time that I've heard you say “illegal entry”.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Actually, I've used that term before, sir. I have no qualms in using the term. What I'm referring to when I say “illegal” is the act of crossing our border between ports of entry. That's an illegal act. I don't think that claiming asylum in and of itself is illegal. I don't share that opinion.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Did you raise with Secretary Kelly the need to fix this loophole that's being exploited?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I will say on the record that there are no formal negotiations ongoing with respect to the safe third country agreement. Having said that, we have a partnership with the United States, our counterparts, where we talk about anything and everything related to border security, border integrity, and asylum, and these are issues such as information sharing and so on. That partnership is ongoing and those conversations are ongoing, but there are no formal negotiations to—

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Do you still think that agreement is working fantastically well for Canada, knowing that, Minister—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I do, and the numbers show that.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Let me finish, Minister. You are asking for $173 million that could be spent on veterans or on renewing the human trafficking program that was run with your department and Public Safety and you have not renewed. You're making choices as a minister. In terms of the social costs to provinces, which your own department estimates as almost $4 billion, all of these costs are a result of the loophole in the safe third country agreement. Don't you agree that your top priority should be to fix that?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

For me to answer the question, the question has to be accurate. I didn't ask for $173 million. We're getting $17 million out of that. Some of that money is going to other agencies, such as the RCMP and CBSA, so that they can do their work with respect to border security. Some of that money is going into IRB, precisely to do faster processing so that asylum claimants who are found not to be genuine refugees can be removed and others can move on with their lives, precisely to reduce those downstream pressures and costs to provinces.

You would agree with me that having faster processing at the IRB would help provinces with the costs of asylum seekers. When asylum seekers have their decisions—

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Your own department, Minister, has said that without changes to the safe third country agreement, processing times could go to 133 months. Last year when you appeared you said that you were actually asking for less money in estimates. This year you're coming back and suggesting, well, the $173 million will be divided amongst the RCMP...after suggesting that at the department you're handling this internally.

I don't have any confidence in your response to this, Minister, and I don't think suggesting that the safe third country agreement is working fantastically well is accurate.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Again, there are a number of questions there, and I don't—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to cut you off there.

Perhaps I could get some agreement here. Mr. Sarai is next. If he could take four minutes, I could give Ms. Kwan three to end the round if the minister would stay three or four extra minutes.