Evidence of meeting #112 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was border.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
As I said earlier, the discussions have basically looked at the possibility of modernizing the agreement, as any 14-year-old agreement would be ripe for modernization.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
That wasn't my question to the minister. The minister fails to understand.
I'm trying to see whether the government has raised the issue, gone to the core of the issue. The core of the issue is not so much about the asylum seekers crossing over but what causes them to do that. Frankly, my view rests with the U.S. administration, and most particularly with the President himself. Has that been brought to the table?
Perhaps Minister Goodale can answer that question. Has his ministry, or his ministry officials, brought that forward?
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
There was no misunderstanding of the question. I understood your question. We just have a different perspective on asylum seekers and how they should claim asylum. We have a UN-supported position—
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
—and asylum seekers should claim asylum in the first safe country that they land in.
Liberal
Ralph Goodale Liberal Regina—Wascana, SK
I'd make two observations in response to that, Ms. Kwan.
The first is that the beginning of this issue took place before there was a change in administration in the United States. There's not a specific correlation that's identifiable, because the numbers began before the government changed in the United States.
Secondly, we have raised with American officials, a concern that if they change policy with respect to the status of persons who have been given temporary protected status in the United States, that could have an impact on border management with Canada. We have encouraged the Americans, in every case, to give as much advanced notice as possible of their intention to make a status change, so that we can be prepared to deal with the consequences of that. Since we made that request to the Americans quite some time ago, they have adopted a practice of giving 18 to 20 months' notice before an established change would come into effect.
We have observed that status changes in the United States could have an impact on the border. We have requested that they give advance notice if they have a status change in mind, and they have complied with that request. Now consistently, in every case I believe, they give us at least 18 months' notice that they might have a status change in mind.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much.
There might have been some influx, but I think it's fair to say that since the Trump administration formed office, there has been a significant change with respect to asylum seekers crossing over to Canada regularly. We have seen the numbers spike and continue to go up over this period of time, so I think it's fair to say that there is some correlation with respect to that.
In fact, Amnesty International did an informal survey of some of the asylum seekers early on, and their finding was exactly that. The asylum seekers are saying that they cannot get due process in the United States, which is part of the issue around safety, for asylum seekers to be able to access due process.
To that end, my question to the ministers—a short answer—is this. Have you had the opportunity to read the report from Amnesty International?
Liberal
Ralph Goodale Liberal Regina—Wascana, SK
The report is certainly available to my officials in my department. I've read portions of the analysis. Those observations are always worth studying and taking into account in our analysis.
What that analysis would not cover, though, is the circumstance where someone obtains a visitor visa at a United States travel office in some foreign country, comes to the United States, is only in the United States for perhaps a week or two or a month or two, and then comes to the Canadian border. That suggests a different set of factors that don't necessarily depend on domestic U.S. policy.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
To the Minister of Immigration, do you have the breakdown of how many individuals are crossing over from the United States through a secondary visa, and how many of them are here to seek asylum without that visa?
Maybe the officials could answer that question.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
It really depends on the nationality. For example, with the Nigerian nationals at the moment, the majority of them have valid U.S. visas and have stayed in the United States for very short periods of time—less than six months.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Maybe I can ask the minister to table with this committee the exact breakdown of what nationality and from what country they fall under these different categories, so that we have that data before us to see how many of them are here on a visa and how many are not.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
Minister Hussen, have you had the opportunity to read the report from Amnesty International?
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Similar to Minister Goodale, the report is available to my department. I haven't read the complete report. I've read portions of it, and the analysis that it's based on.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I would urge both ministers to read the report because I think it is very informative and relevant to our discussion today.
On the question around resources, can the minister advise how many staff have been reallocated from IRCC to deal with the asylum seekers' situation?
Liberal
Mike MacDonald Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Thank you.
It depends on what time frame we're talking about. We had previously provided statistics to the committee for last summer's movement, which was around 153 employees being reallocated.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
This year we have 62 employees working on a regular migration.
Liberal
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
I will go first. I will split my time with Mr. Sarai.
Thank you both, ministers, for being here. This question will be to both of you, so either one of you can feel free to answer.
According to the United Nations, 65 million individuals are forcibly displaced around the world. That being said, we've seen a large number of asylum seekers coming to the Canadian border, and Canada needs to adjust our operations accordingly when we see that happen.
Can you elaborate to the committee on some of the operations you have changed, maybe some additional resources you have put in place?
Liberal
Ralph Goodale Liberal Regina—Wascana, SK
Very briefly, from the point of view of the agencies in Public Safety, principally CBSA and the RCMP, last year when faced with the beginning of these circumstances, both agencies made internal adjustments that they have described many times in the public arena to make sure they have the personnel and the physical facilities properly located to cope with sudden and unexpected and unusual movements at the border. Those reassignments and rearrangements are for a temporary period to make sure we accomplish two objectives: enforce all Canadian laws and respect all Canada's international obligations.
To this point, the very proficient people who work for both CBSA and the RCMP have accomplished both of those objectives and accomplished them very well. Independent organizations that have observed the operations at the border have been very complimentary about the way in which CBSA and the RCMP, as well as the IRCC officials, have handled the circumstances they have been faced with.
As we reviewed the circumstances last year, learned the lessons from last year, and began to prepare for what might happen in 2018, both Minister Hussen and I concluded that while some internal reorganization was again possible this year, it would be necessary to have additional resources. We went to our cabinet colleagues to request those additional resources, and as you know, they were provided in the last budget, about $173 million or $174 million divided over two years between my agencies and Minister Hussen's agencies, which gives us extra capacity for physical facilities and personnel, properly and strategically located, to achieve our proper public policy objectives.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
If I can stop you there, my colleague would like to get in a question.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
I first want to commend Commissioner Lucki for coming out to her maiden CIMM meeting along with Mr. Cloutier. I want to commend you on maintaining the integrity of our border and the processing of refugees. The way we do it is one of the rarest ways of any country that has been able to do it on an unmanned and unfenced border crossing, but our processing of them in a safe, secure, and humanitarian way is something the world should model.
My colleagues in the Conservative Party continue to lay out some serious proposals, they think, to maybe have the entire border crossing, all 9,000 kilometres of it, designated an official border crossing, which the CBSA has confirmed would be very expensive and completely unrealistic
Minister Goodale, can you comment on the feasibility of this proposal, and tell us what it would require. Also, what are the practicalities or impracticalities of making the entire Canada-U.S. border one continuous port of entry? Then if you can elaborate, would you need U.S. co-operation as our border security usually requires it? What kinds of resources would you need to make this happen?
