Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant (Don Valley West, Lib.)), Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Good morning and welcome to the 117th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Just as a reminder, once the meeting begins the only cameras to be allowed will be those of the Parliament of Canada.

To begin, I want to thank the witnesses and ministers for attending.

I will draw to your attention that the committee voted at its last meeting to undertake a study on the impact of irregular crossing of Canada's southern border. That study is taking place today in three meetings; however, it needs a budget to be approved. I'm going to look for a motion to facilitate these meetings, that we adopt the budget as presented in the amount of $22,600 to undertake the study of irregular crossing at Canada's southern border.

Do I have that motion?

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I would be happy to move that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Whalen has moved that.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

The second point of business is that I want thank the clerks for a very quick turnaround in establishing these three meetings, and the analysts for preparing us. I just want to draw to your attention that it is Brendan's, birthday today. We thank him for coming in on his birthday.

We're beginning the first hour with Minister Goodale and Minister Blair.

Congratulations, Mr. Blair. We're very pleased to see you here today.

Each of the ministers will have seven minutes to address this topic, followed by questions by committee members. We'll begin with Mr. Goodale.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee members. Good morning. Let me add my words of welcome and congratulations also to Minister Blair. We're very glad to have him as part of our team at Public Safety.

The border, Mr. Chair, that we share with the United States is the most successful international boundary in the history of the world. It is a source of great prosperity for both our countries, with 400,000 people and $2.5 billion in trade crossing in both directions every day. This immense flow of trade and travel happens at the same time that security, of course, remains our top priority when it comes to border management. From the very beginning of the asylum-seeker issue about 18 months ago, the Government of Canada has repeatedly emphasized two primary objectives: make sure that all Canadian laws are enforced, and make sure that all of Canada's international obligations are honoured. We have met those imperatives, Mr. Chair, without fail and we will continue to do so, ensuring public safety and national security.

We can all thank the competent officers responsible for law enforcement and border security for that. They enforce Canada's laws while ensuring we meet our international obligations. Both for them and for our government, security remains the number one priority.

Our law enforcement and border security personnel have been performing their duties in a professional and highly effective manner during what has been a busy and challenging time. Everyone who has seen them in action at the border, at places like Lacolle, have nothing but praise and admiration for their work, including, I am pleased to say, the leader of the official opposition, who paid a visit to the border at Lacolle some weeks ago.

We have repeatedly made clear that entering Canada outside an official port of entry is not a free ticket to stay here. There are rules and procedures that must be followed—notably, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Criminal Code. The women and men of the Canada Border Services Agency, the RCMP, and the Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship apply those rules and procedures assiduously. Those who cross the border between ports of entry are immediately arrested. They are carefully interviewed, searched, fingerprinted, and photographed. Their identity is verified both biographically and biometrically. Their records are checked against Canadian and international databases for any immigration, security, or criminal concerns. If they present any risk to the safety and security of Canadians, they can be detained as necessary.

Asylum seekers who are found eligible to pursue an asylum claim in Canada are issued a conditional removal order pending the resolution of their claim by the Immigration and Refugee Board. That is a question of fact that they must prove. If the IRB finds that an individual is in genuine need of Canada's protection, they receive that protection in keeping with our values and our long-standing international commitments. If the claim is unsuccessful, the claimant becomes inadmissible to Canada, and the removal process proceeds as quickly as possible in accordance with the due process of law.

That is the process, because since Canada signed on to the UN refugee convention nearly half a century ago, it has been one of our country's bedrock principles that we do give a fair hearing to people on our soil who ask for our protection. That principle is embodied in section 133 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

At the same time, our system must be well managed. That's why earlier this year the government operations centre within my department led Canada's contingency planning for a possible surge in irregular migration this summer. In fact, the number of asylum seekers crossing between ports of entry went down in May, and it went down again in June, now to the lowest monthly total so far in 2018. But thanks to our preparations as well as continued collaboration with provincial and municipal partners, we have a national strategic response plan that is now in effect. This plan is based on lessons learned and best practices from our experiences collectively last year. It enables us to use all of the resources—technology, intelligence, and partnerships—available to address fluctuations in irregular migration. It is flexible and nimble, and allows for quick responses when necessary, including increases and decreases in capacity based on need.

These measures are bolstered by the additional funding provided in budget 2018. Within the public safety portfolio, that includes $49 million for CBSA, $10 million for the RCMP, and $2 million for CSIS. On top of that there are, of course, regular communications with U.S. authorities. I raised this matter of irregular migration, for example, at the G7 security ministers meeting in Toronto in April, where American officials undertook to strengthen efforts on their part to prevent the abuse of U.S. travel documents. That have in fact done that.

All of this taken together is ensuring effective, responsible management of the situation at our border.

I'll conclude with this. Irregular migration is an issue that countries around the world are dealing with. We should not be surprised that it's affecting Canada too, and we should not expect there to be easy, quick solutions to what is a complex global problem. But Canadians can be assured that robust security measures are in place, that Canadian law is being rigorously applied, and that we are living up to our international obligations and to our duties and values as Canadians.

Mr. Chair, let me now invite my colleague Minister Blair to go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Minister Blair, please go ahead.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, committee members. I am very happy to join you here this morning in my new role as the Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction, and also to be joined by senior officials in the relevant departments. As many of you are aware, I am very new to the job, but the issues we are discussing are not unknown to me, having served in a large metropolitan community and having to deal with these issues.

The challenges posed by irregular arrivals in Canada straddle a number of federal organizations, represented at the table today, including the CBSA, the RCMP, the Government Operations Centre and, of course, the ministries of Public Safety Canada and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. I hope that in my new role I will have the opportunity to support my colleagues, Minister Goodale and Minister Hussen, in making sure that we connect all the dots among all levels of government and stakeholders—provincial, territorial, municipal, and international—to ensure that all of our obligations are fulfilled. I also hope to make sure that we are addressing irregular migration as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to visit Lacolle. It was very clear to me that our front-line law enforcement and border services personnel continue to perform their duties in a professional and highly effective manner. They are managing that difficult situation exceptionally well.

Ensuring the security of our border and the integrity of our rules-based immigration and refugee protection system continues to be a top priority for the Government of Canada. We will continue to make the point loudly and clearly, as Minister Goodale has already stated, that there is no free ticket to Canada. There are rules and procedures that must be followed.

However, while we remain committed to enforcing every Canadian law, we are also committed to honouring all of Canada's international obligations. As this committee well knows, one of those obligations is to provide refuge for those who are in genuine need of our protection. People seeking asylum in Canada are treated with compassion, and they are afforded due process under the law. While the number of irregular migrants has dropped significantly in recent months, thanks to increased government efforts I believe we are well prepared for any further influx that may arise in the future.

We have a national strategic response plan that is now in effect, based on lessons that have been learned and best practices that have arisen from our collective experiences since 2017. We have also made significant investments of $173.2 million, through budget 2018, to support security operations at the Canada–U.S. border and the processing of asylum claimants. This funding will be used to provide short-term processing and security screening supports at our border. It will also help support decision-making capacity for the Immigration and Refugee Board, which in turn would lead to more timely removals of those who are found to be without a valid claim.

As the situation at the border evolves, we will continue to work closely with our provincial counterparts and municipalities to manage any pressures and concerns. This includes looking at all available options in terms of interim and long-term lodging, as both the Government of Canada and the provinces have a role to play. To that end, I've had the opportunity to meet with the responsible minister in the Province of Ontario, and we are continuing our outreach and close co-operation with provinces and municipalities on this issue. The federal government has been working closely in the past with Ontario and Quebec on secondary migration issues, such as moving asylum seekers outside of large metropolitan areas like Toronto and Montreal.

We also remain closely engaged with our counterparts in the U.S., including U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials. In addition, the Government of Canada continues to reach out to diaspora groups that are headed toward the border, largely based on misinformation. These outreach efforts have been successful. For example, last year they reduced the number of Haitian asylum seekers coming to Canada. We are now working with the U.S. and Nigerian governments to make sure that Canadian rules, laws, and border procedures are well understood by any potential asylum seekers from that country.

Mr. Chair, the government has a plan to manage irregular migration flows. We will work closely with our domestic and international partners to ensure that the plan is implemented.

I look forward to the opportunity to answer your questions. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you to both ministers.

We now enter our round of seven-minute questions. Mr. Fragiskatos, welcome to the committee, and to your seven minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the ministers and the officials for being here. Minister Blair, congratulations on your appointment.

My first question will go to Minister Goodale. Throughout your presentation, and indeed in the comments that followed from Minister Blair, the word “law” was used, and I think that's really important. For me, the actions taken by the government on this question are not so much a choice as they are a response to the responsibilities that the law confers on us. Minister, can you speak about the 1951 UN convention on refugees and what it means for Canada, since we are a signatory? I think this is an obligation; it obliges us to respond.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you. The United Nations convention dealing with refugees was in fact adopted by the UN a very long time ago, in 1951. Canada signed on to that convention in the 1960s and then embodied the principles that were in the international obligation into our domestic law. I believe that legislation was enacted in the mid-1970s, and it is reflected right through all of the subsequent iterations of the act right up until today. The current legislation is the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. There are many sections that are relevant, but the key one is section 133.

That section very clearly says that when a person is in Canada, regardless of how they got here, and they make a claim for asylum, there is an obligation on the part of Canada to give them a fair hearing to determine whether or not they are in need of Canada's protection. If they are found not to need Canada's protection—in other words, it's not a legitimate claim for asylum and this person is not a refugee—then they become inadmissible to Canada and need to be removed from Canada. The law provides for that.

If they do sustain their claim and convince the Immigration and Refugee Board through due process of law that their claim is legitimate, then under the law, by virtue of section 133, how they entered the country becomes irrelevant and non-actionable. That's expressly in the law, in section 133 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. That is the law as it stands now and as it has stood all through the period since the mid-1970s.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. Does the charter carry relevance here? And that goes for any other things.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes, the charter embodies the principles of due process, fairness, and natural justice, and of ensuring that people are treated in a humane and compassionate way.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Minister Blair, I know that you were in Lacolle yesterday. The opposition has unfortunately been painting a picture of chaos at the border. What did you see yesterday at Lacolle? Was it a chaotic situation? What did you find?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

What I observed was the exact opposite of chaos. It was exceptionally orderly and well planned. I've been involved in law enforcement activities for most of my life. I was exceptionally impressed by, first of all, the great work of the RCMP at the initial contact with the individual. The processing and paperwork were exceptionally well managed, as was the forethought that has gone into ensuring that they are prepared to respond to a surge, a change in the volume, which has happened occasionally in the past. The planning was, in my opinion, exceptional. In the past I've heard people express concerns about the coordination between various federal organizations and departments, and what I witnessed yesterday at Lacolle was an absolutely seamless process of collaboration and co-operation among the RCMP, CBSA, and IRCC. It was really a very impressive operation. I think all Canadians would be reassured by better understanding what exactly is taking place there and how well they're being served by the organizations responsible.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. I think I want to continue down this line of questioning in order to really examine this very false narrative of a chaotic situation that's out of control.

To the officials, do you have numbers for how many asylum claimants Canada has received in recent years? For example, it's my understanding that in 2001, around 50,000 or 45,000 entered Canada. That matches well with 2017 at 50,000. Are those numbers accurate?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I will just give you a chance to respond, Mr. MacDonald or Mr. MacKinnon.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Sure.

[Mike MacDonald, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I can respond in the sense that if you look at a 20-year period, we have various ebbs and flows through those 20 years. You have a high of 44,000 and a few extra in 2001. You also have a low in 2013 of 10,400. You have last year's number of more than 50,000. You can see the numbers overall, and the unpredictability, I think, is the point over the 20-year period.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

That lines up well with a very recent study published by the School of Public Policy at the University of Calgary. As a result of the fact that Canada, in 2001, had 45,000 people enter the country as asylum claimants, “It shows the country has handled large influxes of asylum-seekers in the past...”. The article concludes with a quote from Professor Ron Kneebone, an economics professor at the School of Public Policy at the University of Calgary, that “Most countries are civilized, they say, 'If you're subject to persecution, we'll deal with you'”.

I think the numbers don't lie here. What they make evident is that if we have handled large influxes of asylum seekers, as we have done in the past, then we certainly can do so, as we did in 2017 and have done in 2018. So I think that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to cut you off there.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

—uses my seven minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thanks very much, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Mr. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Goodale, are you familiar with article 31 of the convention on refugees?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

If I had it in front of me, I'd look it up to see exactly what that article says.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Well, I can help you.