Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

You just answered my question. You know, you've continually claimed that you can't enforce the safe third country agreement because we can't have eyes on every square inch of the border, but you admit that we enforce rules all the time in places where we don't have law enforcement constantly observing. Secondarily, you have said that we cannot enforce the safe third country agreement because we do not have agreement from the United States of America. Now you admit that you haven't even sought such agreement, which really does raise the question of whether or not you're looking for a solution—

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes, indeed, Mr. Poilievre—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

—or if you're perfectly comfortable with the situation we have right now, where thousands of people are crossing illegally into this country.

My next question is this. Do the Americans automatically turn away every single...? Excuse me, do the Americans apply the safe third country agreement to anybody who enters outside a recognized point of entry? Yes or no?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

That would be a question for IRCC to respond to.

Would you like to repeat it for Mr. MacKinnon?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Do the American apply the safe third country agreement to anybody crossing from Canada into the United States of America between official, recognized ports of entry?

[Paul MacKinnon]

No. The U.S. applies the safe third country agreement in exactly the reciprocal fashion that we apply it for south-north traffic.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

The regulations that are published on the U.S. immigration and citizenship website suggest that it will deem border crossers who have crossed between different ports of entry as having arrived at those ports of entry for the purposes of the safe third country agreement in certain circumstances.

Given that this is the case, why have we not asked the Americans if we could do the same under the agreement we have with them?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Ossowski wants to add an observation.

[John Ossowski, President, Canada Border Services Agency]

I would simply add that if someone were crossing from Canada into the United States in-between a port of entry and claiming asylum, then the safe third country agreement would apply. But they have to claim asylum. That's the trigger for that agreement to come into play.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

So even if they're crossing between—

[John Ossowski]

Yes. The safe third agreement is about asylum.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right.

[John Ossowski]

They're seeking protection. So if someone were crossing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Poilievre, you're at the end of your time, but I'm giving you 30 seconds more because the Liberals had 30 seconds more.

You have 30 seconds.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

As I understand it, you've said that if someone crosses between ports of entry into the United States from Canada and claims asylum—

[John Ossowski]

They would apply the safe third.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

But you're saying that we can't do the same.

[John Ossowski]

We do the same. When someone crosses into Canada, they claim asylum—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

At a point of entry, but not between points of entry.

[John Ossowski]

Yes, they do. That's exactly what we do.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Is that an official point of entry?

[John Ossowski]

There are two—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I'm sorry, I think you're missing the question.

[John Ossowski]

When a person claims at an official port of entry, they have to meet one of the exceptions. They have to be an unaccompanied minor, they have to have an anchor relative in Canada; there are four altogether. When they cross in-between a port of entry, they're also claiming asylum, but because of the way the agreement is written...there's a loophole, if you will, in the agreement, because when it was originally negotiated—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

We're aware of all that.