Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to end it there.

Monsieur Ayoub is next.

[Ramez Ayoub, Thérèse-De Blainville, Lib.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us.

Global migrations are very interesting as a topic and people all around the world put a lot of effort into having a platform from which they can express their views. This allows global migrations to be discussed, their causes to be understood and acted upon.

It seems to me that there are two conflicting realities in the way this is looked at. You can ignore it and not be part of it, but we know that you do not get a say if you do not show up. The best way to encourage refugees to reintegrate, either in their home countries or in the countries that welcome them, is to take part in developing a plan. That's what the global compacts seem to be doing. People who are resistant to those plans will find all kinds of reasons to not be part of them. They are afraid and they turn inwards on themselves. There are two conflicting realities.

The United States will not be part of developing a plan. Canada is an important neighbour of the United States. Without necessarily wanting to become a world leader in immigration, we want to have a policy that encourages acceptance and champions compassion and fairness. How can we make all the details of our policy on migrants known to Canadians so that they become convinced of the validity of the policy? What do we do to make the Trudeau government a leader and to continue to show compassion? Canada has a great history of compassion, but there is a kind of conservative current in the way we act. How can we convince our conservative friends that this is the right thing to do?

The witnesses can answer in any order that suits them. Mr. Vinhas, do you want to start?

[Stéphane Vinhas]

If we go back to what is happening at the moment, I can tell you that all the migration policies, all that the United States is putting into place, and all the threats their president is making is not stopping people from organizing migrant caravans. This is not even about individual considerations anymore; these are definitely migrant communities deciding to form caravans to get to the United States. We make a mistake by thinking that we are an island in the centre of the world. Even if we were that island, people would still get on a boat to get here. We have seen that once again in the case of the Rohingyas.

I repeat that all the walls we may build will be of no use. Instead, we have to ensure that people can keep their dignity. As you say, Canada is a welcoming country. If Canadians found themselves having to flee their country one day, they would be very happy to find other countries open and generous towards them.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Ms. Kaastra-Mutoigo, do you have anything to add?

[Ida Kaastra-Mutoigo]

I always look at this from the perspective of what Canada's gifts are, and for those who are probably more conservative, I would say to look at our civil society and the enormous wealth it has in welcoming people and how we can generate that spirit among Canadians.

If I look at our own faith-based community of 200-plus churches, 75% of them want to support refugees. We don't even have enough spaces. By September they are completely filled up. They support people to get on their feet, to get jobs, to start businesses. Look at the economic development that is going to contribute. To put barriers that limit the growth of Canada, this place where we have a huge amount of space.... All you have to do is fly from one part of the country to another and, compared to the U.S., look at the resources we have. It's just enormous.

To look at it from an asset-based point of view and to generate how we can multiply those assets, to me, is the key. That is what this whole compact will do. Think about how we settle refugees really well.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Thank you.

Madam Solomon, do you have something to say about that?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

Yes, just very briefly, and thank you very much, sir, for your statement. It's quite compassionate and compelling.

One of the main aspirations of the global compact for migration is to enhance the rule of law and to ensure due process of law in migration policies around the world. Canada obviously is committed to that and has a real interest in ensuring that other countries do as well. That will be important for addressing the labour market needs in Canada.

Some of the western provinces, of course, have skills gaps in particular sectors that need to be filled, including by migrant workers. Canada also has an interest in terms of ensuring the reduction in irregular migration, so you have a lot to give to the world.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Thank you for the answer.

I don't have much time left.

We make trade agreements all around the world and pat ourselves on the back about them. We want to have influence, we want to be part of it all, and to encourage a certain fairness. Mr. Vinhas talked about eliminating the root causes of forced migrations and the return of refugees.

How can we assign some responsibility to the peoples or the countries that end up being the cause of an involuntary migration, by virtue of a war or—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

It's a good question, but I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to let them answer.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Perhaps you will have the opportunity to answer that later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I am sorry.

Go ahead, Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

For Michele, the 22nd objective of the compact on migration is to “Establish mechanisms for the portability of social security entitlements and earned benefits”.

What does that mean?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

I'll give you an example in the Caribbean. If someone has worked in one country in the Caribbean for many years and contributed to its social security and health care systems, when they return to their home country, they will be able to take the value of that back through a state-to-state co-operation agreement.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Okay, can you explain how you envision that working?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

There are examples where that works already in some cases, largely negotiated as a matter of bilateral agreements between countries. In some regions of the world, it's undertaken on a regional basis.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

If somebody earned the right to health care in one country and moved to a different country, they would have the same entitlement there. Is that what you are saying?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

No, they would take whatever the value is of their accumulated rights—for example, a pension. If you earned a pension, if you worked in a country for 10 years and contributed to the pension system, you would be able to take with you when you return, if there's an agreement between the countries, the value of your pension back to your country of origin. It's only what you have earned based on your own contributions.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

In terms of the management of that agreement, would that be...? I'm just trying to understand how this works. I know there are a lot of questions about state contributions.

[Michele Klein Solomon]

Yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Have you any other information on that, so I am clear?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

It's challenging. It's a complicated area, because every country's national system is different. Finding ways to work portability between systems requires mechanisms to translate from one to the other.

As I mentioned, the Caribbean, for example, where people tend to move around and work in different countries at various points in their career, has worked out a system for actually allocating time earned in various systems and working to—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The end goal would be a global system for that.

[Michele Klein Solomon]

I don't think a global system is realistic anytime in the near future.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

But that's what the agreement aspires to.

[Michele Klein Solomon]

Not necessarily. It talks about bilateral as well as regional agreements. Personally, and this is my own opinion, having seen it, I think it's not realistic to imagine a massive global system on this aspect anytime soon.