Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 26th, 2018

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant (Don Valley West, Lib.)), Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm going to call this meeting to order.

This is the 134th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of migration challenges and opportunities for Canada in the 21st century.

As part of the study, we're looking at the global compacts on both refugees and on migration, which are currently under consideration within the UN network. We are doing a series of meetings on Canada's role in those, as well as the impact that they might have.

We very much thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship for joining us, as well as officials from IRCC and Global Affairs Canada.

It is my understanding that the content of the two compacts has largely been driven, from a governmental side, by IRCC, and the process of engagement has been largely driven by Global Affairs. We've invited officials from both departments to join us, and we thank you for coming.

We're going to begin with Mr. DeCourcey with an opening statement, and then the committee will have a chance to ask you and officials questions.

My understanding right now is that Mr. DeCourcey will be with us for the first hour of the meeting, as is our norm, and the officials will be available, should the questions need to be continued by committee members, in the second hour.

Mr. DeCourcey.

[Matt DeCourcey, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank my colleagues for being here to discuss an issue that is important not just for Canada, but also for the entire world.

I'm certainly pleased to be here today to discuss the Government of Canada's support for the adoption of the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration and the global compact on refugees.

With me, from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, are Glen Linder, director general for international and intergovernmental relations; and Susan Greene, senior director for resettlement and protection policy. From Global Affairs Canada are Deirdre Kent, director general for international assistance policy; and Stephen Salewicz, director general for international humanitarian assistance.

I will deliver a few opening remarks, and then I will be more than happy to take your questions.

Mr. Chair, as the committee has heard during its study on 21st-century migration challenges, global migration is generally on the rise. In 2017, the number of migrants worldwide was estimated at 258 million, a 49% increase compared to the year 2000. Also in 2017, 68.5 million people around the world were forcibly displaced from their homes.

Not only is Canada aware of these developments, but we are considered a global leader when it comes to managing migration and refugee issues. We have a mature, well-managed migration system, which includes our recently announced levels plan and substantial investments in settlement and integration. As a way to share this experience with the global community and strengthen its reaction to migration and refugee issues, Canada has also played an active role in the development of the two compacts that we are here to discuss today.

As the committee members may know, in September of 2016, the United Nations General Assembly adopted the New York Declaration for Refugees and Migrants. It launched separate processes to create two non-binding international instruments: the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration and the global compact on refugees. I will start with the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration, and then I will speak about the global compact on refugees.

Canada has greatly benefited from treating migration, not as a problem, but as a complex reality that brings opportunities along with its challenges.

The global compact for migration provides a long-term vision for how countries can improve their responses to migration so that, together, the international community can better reap the benefits and respond to the challenges of migration.

At the centre of the compact for safe, orderly and regular migration are 23 balanced objectives that states can work towards over the coming years. They draw attention to the serious challenges that irregular migration poses while emphasizing the positive contributions of migrants, the benefits of regular pathways and the need for well-managed migration systems.

This is based on the understanding that, as the primary actor in migration and decision-making, it is individual countries themselves that retain the sovereign right to determine who enters and stays on their territories and under what conditions, provided this is done in accordance with their international legal obligations. Accordingly, the text of the compact includes national sovereignty as one of the 10 guiding principles, something that Canada recommended during the process to develop the text.

I want to be clear at the outset about an important aspect of the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration. It is a non-binding instrument; it is not a treaty. Each objective in it includes commitments that, over time, would contribute to meeting the compact's objectives. The actions listed under each commitment are considered a compendium of best practices. This list is intended to provide guidance to countries as they consider how they might work toward achieving the objectives.

Because the compact is non-binding, fulfilling the commitments is voluntary. Each country has the flexibility to implement the compact in a way that works best for them. However, it is Canada's hope that countries will implement the compact in a meaningful way. We would encourage them to use the guidance and the best practices to strengthen their national migration systems.

It is only by better managing migration in each national context that we can, together, work to counter the risks and address the challenges of irregular migration globally. When it comes to implementing the compact in Canada, I should note that a review by federal departments has confirmed that Canadian practices generally align with the compact's objectives and commitments.

Adopting the migration compact would not require changes to our current system, nor would it limit our ability to continue protecting the health, safety and security of Canadians. Canada's responsibility would simply be to consider implementing those best practices that we feel would help to further improve our approach to managing migration. Put simply, in Canada the migration compact would provide an additional policy lens when planning, developing and evaluating our migration policies and programs.

Internationally, Canada could use the adoption of the compact as an opportunity to showcase our mature migration system, to encourage other countries to deter irregular migration and to put in place pathways for regular migration, so that they can take advantage of the benefits that migration can bring.

I want to note that consultation on Canada's approach to the migration compact has been quite extensive. To inform our negotiation position, my department put together a Canadian migration expert group made up of representatives from civil society organizations and academia from across the country. This group's detailed and helpful insights were considered carefully as we developed Canadian positions and interventions. We also consulted the provinces and territories. In fact, Canada's delegation to the adoption conference will include representatives from municipal and provincial governments as well as civil society.

After two years of consultations and negotiations, the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration will be presented for adoption at a high-level global conference on December 10 and 11 in Morocco, followed by formal adoption by the UN General Assembly. Given the diversity of views about migration that exist around the world, it's inspiring to consider that the vast majority of countries will attend and adopt the compact.

Allow me to turn to the global compact on refugees, which is expected to be validated by the UN General Assembly by the end of 2018. Remembrance Day has just passed, which provides us an opportunity to reflect both on a shameful time when Canada turned its back on the MS St. Louis and also to remember the sacrifice of Canadian soldiers who died fighting Nazism and fascism in Europe. Let us also remember that in the days following the world war Canada stood with other states, creating the 1951 refugee convention to protect innocent people fleeing persecution.

We see, once again today, many people on the move for myriad reasons. We see the necessity of working in a comprehensive, coordinated and co-operative effort to address this pressing global challenge. Every time we settle a woman at risk or offer asylum on our land, we demonstrate the values and ideas that define Canada today, just as they did after the Second World War. The compact is about a stronger, fairer response to global refugee movements. Its key aims are to ease pressure on major hosting countries, help refugees become self-reliant, expand opportunities for resettlement and create conditions for sustainable voluntary returns.

The global compact on refugees outlines non-binding best practices that encourage the international community to stand with refugees and host communities. This new way of working between governments, development agencies, humanitarian agencies, civil society and the private sector brings us together in solidarity with refugees.

As a world leader, Canada's resettlement program responds to the needs of the most vulnerable refugees who have been forced to flee their homes. Our recent commitment to resettle an additional 1,000 women and girls reinforces just that.

We are already doing our part. The global compact on refugees encourages other states to follow our lead in this work, and we are helping them build capacity with our global refugee sponsorship initiative.

I should note that the Government of Canada, in consultation with Canadian civil society, has been actively engaged in shaping the global compact on refugees. In particular, together with Canadian non-governmental organizations, we have consistently advocated for a gender-sensitive compact throughout its development.

Canada strongly supports the ways in which the final version of the global compact on refugees focuses on specific measures to advance gender equality and ensure the active participation of refugee women in shaping and implementing refugee responses. This will advance the empowerment of refugee women and girls.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'll just ask you to draw to a conclusion.

[Matt DeCourcey]

In conclusion, at a time when populism and anti-immigrant sentiment are on the rise, it is important to build international momentum to better anticipate and respond to global migration and refugee flows.

The global compact for migration and global compact for refugees both provide Canada with an opportunity to showcase our best practices and explain how they can help to balance domestic and international considerations and interests related to migration and refugee protection.

As I've noted, adopting them would not affect Canada's sovereignty or infringe upon the rights of Canadians.

I hope this helps to outline our government's support for these initiatives, and I'd be happy to discuss it further through questions and answers.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

We'll turn to the government side, Mr. Tabbara, for seven minutes.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our parliamentary secretary for joining us, along with officials as well.

Mr. DeCourcey, you mentioned that the figures of global migrants are at 258 million. That's a 49% increase, as we've seen.

We know that Canada needs to act and that states need to act in a collaborative measure.

However, there are some states that have not signed on to the compact. There are certain parties that don't believe this compact will be sufficient. There are talks that this compact aims to erase national borders, that Canada is encouraging irregular migration or that it threatens national security. Some political parties have used this as fearmongering.

Do you believe that this compact would do any of these things?

[Matt DeCourcey]

Well, in fact, this global compact speaks explicitly about countries of the world retaining their sovereign right to manage their borders and their migration systems. What it does is provide a compendium of best practices so that countries around the world can work co-operatively, collaboratively and across a range of initiatives to better manage—as I mentioned in my opening comments and you reiterated—the largest trends of global migration that we've seen since the Second World War.

The global compact is about addressing a pressing global challenge, and seeking out ways to work together to foster safe, orderly and regular migration, while retaining national sovereignty and ensuring the safety and security of a country's own citizens. That's certainly the view of Canada, and that's a view that we brought to the table in the drafting of these compacts. It's a view that is explicitly referenced within the compacts.

Political parties and political operatives who would suggest that this is about opening our borders up to more irregular migration are peddling fear and spewing false narratives that are completely contradictory to what this compact seeks to do.

I can quote what this compact is about. It's about our shared responsibility to address global migration challenges, and it speaks to that very fact in section 11, where it talks about shared responsibilities. It says:

No country can address the challenges and opportunities of this global phenomenon on its own. With this comprehensive approach, we aim to facilitate safe, orderly and regular migration, while reducing the incidence and negative impact of irregular migration....

Those who would suggest otherwise are simply peddling false narratives and trying to raise fear and incite anger around the world.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I want to touch on that, “false narratives”. I'm going to read off a few of the objectives in the compact, just to have them on the record here, and I want you to add to this.

There are 23 objectives, and it says, “we will draw from these actions to achieve safe, orderly and regular migration along the migration cycle.”

Number one is “Collect and utilize accurate and disaggregated data as a basis for evidence-based policies”.

Number two is “Minimize the adverse drivers and structural factors that compel people to leave their country of origin”.

Number four is “Ensure that all migrants have proof of legal identity and adequate documentation”.

Number five is “Enhance availability and flexibility of pathways for regular migration”.

The last one, number 23, is “Strengthen international cooperation and global partnerships for safe, orderly and regular migration”.

These are part of the 23 objectives.

Why would other operatives, other parties, other states, not buy into this?

[Matt DeCourcey]

I won't speak for other political parties. I won't speak for anyone but the Government of Canada.

The Government of Canada firmly believes that this compact, through its principles, through the objectives and action items outlined within it, seeks to strengthen the rule of law and foster safe, orderly and regular migration as a means to deterring irregular migration and instances of irregular migration that we see around the world. In doing so, it effectively builds trust and confidence with everyone involved in helping to address these challenges. That includes countries that will be signing the compact, as well as migrants, refugees and those who seek asylum in safe countries.

This is about ensuring that we work together, that the global community co-operates, not just in ways to provide more support to host countries, but also to find ways to support resettlement in safe third countries, through diplomatic efforts, and through enhanced humanitarian and development assistance.

These are all part and parcel of what is baked into these compacts.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

We heard from a lot of witnesses that Canada was extensively involved in the drafting of the compacts. Can you lay down the specific contributions?

[Matt DeCourcey]

Well, one of Canada's contributions was to ensure that national sovereignty was maintained as a principle within the compacts, but additionally, we worked hard to make sure that specific reference to the vulnerabilities of women and girls in refugee situations was mentioned within the compacts. It is well within there.

We have a good story to tell here in Canada about the ways in which we can provide a safe haven to vulnerable women and girls and those who experience other vulnerabilities as refugees throughout the migration process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the department officials for being part of our study on migration challenges and opportunities for Canada in the 21st century.

I had the opportunity, I believe it was in April 2017, to be in Mexico City with Speaker Regan. It was very interesting to visit some of the resettlement centres in Mexico City and to hear from the Mexican government that Mexico itself was having a lot more pressures on it from migration coming up through the U.S. It was trying to respond to increased refugee and asylum claimants. Now we have this situation at the U.S.-Mexico border, which I think a lot of people are paying attention to. I think a lot of Canadians are paying attention to this as well.

I was reading an article this morning that said that one of the Catholic archbishops in Canada, Leonardo Marin Saavedra raised the possibility of some of the migrant caravan being accepted in Canada. I think this situation is probably going to be more frequent in Canada as we see greater pressures on Mexico and the U.S. coming up in terms of migration challenges in the 21st century.

I'm just wondering, because the archbishop had said that there was going to be a project proposal put forward to Justin Trudeau. Maybe I'll go to Ms. Greene, as you're the director of resettlement and protection policy. Has the government advised you or asked you at all to start preparing a proposal or any policy to respond to the particular caravan situation that we're seeing in Tijuana right now?

[Susan Greene, Senior Director, Resettlement and Protection Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I'm actually going to refer you to Mr. Linder because he is our lead for migration-related issues.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Sure.

[Glen Linder, Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

At this time, we are monitoring the situation very carefully, and we are aware of rumours that are circulating about Canada having plans with respect to people who are in the various movements coming through Mexico. However, at this time, Canada is not considering any exceptional resettlement measures with regard to that particular movement.

We currently have a number of other more serious situations around the world that we are focusing on, particularly in the Middle East. That's where we're focusing our attention for the time being.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you for that clarity.

The other thing that has been a topic of migration challenges, obviously, is the situation at Roxham Road. Part of the conversation on what's happening in Mexico and whether or not Canada should be accepting refugees who are in the situation at Tijuana, or going forward, is the criteria around the safe third country agreement. We've had a few very high-profile groups say that the safe third country agreement should be suspended and that the U.S. does not provide a system with fair hearing.

Does IRCC still consider the United States a country that provides fair hearing for refugee claimants?

[Susan Greene]

What I can say for IRCC is that, obviously, the Government of Canada is aware of the developments in the United States. At this time, following the most recent full review of the safe third country agreement, the assessment is that, yes, the United States remains a safe third country.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Could you tell us, just very briefly, some of the criteria that you consider when you make that determination?

[Susan Greene]

There's a full range of criteria that are taken into account. Several of them would include whether or not there is due process available through the judicial system, whether the majority of human rights are respected, safe passage and freedom to leave, registration, etc.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

My last question would be probably for Mr. Linder and Ms. Greene.

One of the announcements that we heard from the government around the levels report was an initiative to promote certain terminology being used in the media or perceptions around immigration. I know that there is similar language in the global compact for migration.

Do you have a sense of or has the government instructed you on a plan, a framework or what that would look like yet? Do you have a framework for implementing that particular initiative?

[Susan Greene]

I'm not sure that we understand the initiative to which you're referring.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

On the day that the levels report was tabled, the minister made an announcement in his press conference that the government would be undertaking a media campaign, or an awareness campaign, around appropriate terminology. We notice that this is something that's included in the global compact.

Has the government provided you with a framework for what that would look like?

[Susan Greene]

Glen, I'll let you speak to that.

[Glen Linder]

Up until now, we've rigorously been doing campaigns in the United States, for example, and in other countries as well, to deter irregular migration to Canada—