Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 29th, 2018

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I'm not sure if you would have this information—maybe we would have to request it from the UN—but in your experience, what is the normal budget for a UN secretariat?

[Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak]

I don't know.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Maybe that's something the clerks can get for us.

I have another couple of questions, but I think I'm getting—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have one minute.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Okay.

In terms of the hosting of this forum, there are the 23 different objectives set out in the global compact on migration, and the compact on refugees has its own. Is this meant to be a forum restricted solely to the global compact on refugees, or is it meant to address the migration compact as well as the refugee compact?

[Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak]

The forum itself is on the global compact on refugees only.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Okay.

I would also like to reiterate a statement that you made earlier about the way these documents are drafted. In fact, I think at one point you may have referred to refugees as “human resources”. I think I would maybe like to also refer to them as “human beings”. We're just trying to help human beings, and we shouldn't be trying to divide them up as assets or burdens. Remembering that little bit of compassion, as you reminded us earlier, I think is helpful for our letter to the minister that will come out of this study.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. Whalen.

Mr. Maguire, you have seven minutes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have some questions, but first I'd like to use a couple of minutes of my time to provide notice of a couple of motions.

The first one would be that the Standing Committee on Immigration and Citizenship invite the Parliamentary Budget Officer for a two-hour meeting to discuss his report entitled “Costing Irregular Migration across Canada's Southern Border” before the House rises before Christmas.

The second one would be that the committee on immigration and citizenship formally request that the Auditor General undertake a fulsome review of the irregular migrants crossing the southern border, and that the audit include IRCC, IRB, RCMP, CBSA, CSIS and the functioning of the ad hoc intergovernmental task force on irregular migration.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

We have a bit of a dilemma, I think, in that the safe third country agreement defines a family member as including sisters and brothers, grandfathers and grandmothers, grandchildren, uncles and aunts, etc. It means that someone who crosses the border illegally can have as many extended family members as they want cross into Canada legally at a port of entry. On the other hand, the one-year window of opportunity provision, which allows resettled refugees to sponsor family members to Canada, defines family members only as a spouse and children.

We know that this has been difficult for Yazidis in Canada. Many of the women have, as indicated, lost their husbands or other male members of the family and wish they could sponsor other male relatives. Do you think it's fair that illegal border crossers are allowed to bring extended family members into the country when Yazidi refugees are not allowed to do so?

Could I have your comments, please, Majed?

[Majed El Shafie]

Is that for me or for her?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

It's for you first, and then if Adiba wants to respond too, that would be great as well.

[Majed El Shafie]

Did you understand the question?

[Witness speaks in foreign language]

[Adiba]

[Witness speaks in foreign language]

[Majed El Shafie]

Okay.

When it comes to victims of genocide, any genocide, I believe we have to make it clear that there is an exception here. When we are talking about genocide, we are talking about a whole generation, a whole family, being killed. One of the major effects we see in the victims or survivors of genocide is the way in which they have been divided from their family. I think we need to have an exception for any survivor of genocide in order to make them feel united again, to make them feel whole again.

The problem is that we think the genocide is over, that it was four or five years ago and it's over. In reality, the genocide is still going: There are still people who are stuck there and there are still people who are missing, with no news of them.

The short answer is that I believe extending permission or making an exception for them is very proper.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

I would also note, as we have with others, that there was a shortfall in regard to the mental health provided and the translation. They needed housing. They had no credit. These kinds of things were difficult. We've heard from witnesses in regard to how to deal with these and to try to make these services that are required when they first get here more accessible.

You talked about building a better system. What would some of your suggestions be there? What do you suppose the government should do to be able to be more helpful in that area?

[Majed El Shafie]

I think it's with regard to the mental health issues. We're all talking about mental health issues. One thing would be to build bridges with the community upon their arrival.

For example, a year ago Adiba had a meltdown situation. She was watching something on the Internet and she had a complete meltdown. We had to take her to the Mackenzie hospital. I wasn't present. I was in another area, but I came as quickly as I could. When I got there, I saw that the Mackenzie hospital had decided to tie her hands and her legs to the bed. That's exactly what ISIS used to do before they assaulted her.

We have a video of that. We have evidence of what happened. We have to educate our workers about what these people are going through. These are not crazy people running around; these people are victims. They're survivors. I like to call them “victors”. They have a special need, and in order to deal with this, I believe we need to educate our team about the situation before they arrive. I believe it is very important that we build bridges with these communities.

In terms of institutions, when we speak with certain members in the government about mental health issues, they say there are institutions out there and you can just go and knock on their door, but none of the victims of sex slavery will go knock on that door. This will not happen. They are hurt—plus, there's a stigma about mental health issues within their country. They believe if you go to a psychologist, the people in your community will not speak very kindly of you.

Therefore, you have to build bridges. You have to go knock on their doors, sit down with them, and explain to them how important it is in order to move forward in their lives. Building better bridges, communicating with the community, and educating our workers before they deal with them are all extremely important.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

It seems that we're a compassionate country, as Adiba pointed out. However, one of the things I take from your comments is that we need to do a much better job of knowing who's coming, when they're arriving and how to greet them when they first get here, so they can follow a path and be understood better as they arrive.

Would that be the case?

[Majed El Shafie]

Yes, with one simple correction: We are a very compassionate country. We are.

I will never forget—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

But we're not providing the services.

[Majed El Shafie]

Let me explain why I said that.

I am one of those people who believe that the government should not do everything on its own. The community has to help. It takes a village.

I saw the bus driver who took them without taking the fare from them, or I took them to the supermarket and refused to take money from them to honour them—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I need you to draw to a close, please.

[Majed El Shafie]

I saw how the Canadian people are—generous and kind. We have gaps in the system that have to be covered in order to make it a better system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Kwan.