Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 20th, 2019

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant (Don Valley West, Lib.)), Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm calling the meeting to order.

As we are preparing the meeting, we will be waiting for the ministers. My apologies, there has been some confusion with respect to voting and I didn't want the committee waiting here if we were being called for a vote. However, the ministers are both on their way, so we'll just take a moment. If there was any other business people wanted to bring forward, I'd be happy to do that, or I can suspend for a moment.

I'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm going to call this meeting to order.

This is the 144th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration for the consideration of supplementary estimates (B) for the fiscal year 2018-19. We're specifically dealing with votes 1b, 10b and 15b under the Department of Citizenship and Immigration.

We thank the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship for joining us, as well as the Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction. Thank you for joining us.

We're waiting to see how much time we'll have, but we're going to get in as much as we can. You're invited to give opening remarks and then we'll turn to members of the committee who may have some questions for you on the supplementary estimates.

We'll begin with Minister Hussen.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and colleagues.

I'm pleased to be back at this committee, this time to discuss my department's supplementary estimates (B) for the fiscal year 2018-19. Mr. Blair and I are accompanied by Marta Morgan, the deputy minister of IRCC, as well as a number of other senior officials. I thank them for being here today.

Mr. Chair, for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada's supplementary estimates (B), we're seeking approval for a proposed net increase of $192 million in resources.

Part of this increase, $114.7 million, is to support high volumes of asylum seekers. In a moment, Minister Blair will expand on the government's actions in this matter.

These estimates also include an additional $69.2 million in funding to Quebec to support resettlement, settlement and integration services in line with the Canada-Quebec accord on immigration. Under this accord, we continue to share responsibility and collaboration with Quebec on immigration and settlement issues.

Also included in the estimates is $4.6 million in funding to expand biometrics. This is not new funding, but rather a re-profiling of funding from the previous year to better match planned expenditures under this initiative. Biometric screening has proven to be very effective in protecting the safety and security of Canadians. By expanding our biometrics program, we are facilitating entry into Canada and further protecting the integrity of our immigration system by quickly and accurately being able, through biometrics, to establish a traveller's identity.

These estimates also include $3.2 million to fund the 2018 to 2020 immigration levels plan. This is also not new funding, but a re-profiling of existing funding to better reflect the level of effort within 2018-19. The multi-year immigration levels plan for 2019 to 2021 responsibly and gradually grows the number of permanent residents that Canada welcomes annually.

We have heard from economists, employers, businesses, leaders and Canadians in areas both urban and rural that Canada needs immigration to address its labour market challenges, support economic growth and create more middle-class jobs. That is why we've developed immigration programs that are tailored to meet the needs of Canadian communities and the Canadian economy. For example, the start-up visa program enables foreign entrepreneurs who start innovative businesses to come to Canada and scale up as permanent residents. The global skills strategy gets highly skilled temporary workers into our country faster. Almost 30,000 vacancies that are critical to Canadian businesses in their growth and in addressing their skills shortages have already been filled through this program.

The lessons we've learned from the success in the Atlantic immigration program as well as the provincial nominee program have informed our newly launched rural and northern immigration pilot program, a program that is meant to address the needs of smaller communities across Canada, to fill their specific labour gaps and to enable them to benefit more from immigration.

In terms of processing, we have done a lot as a government to reduce wait times and eliminate backlogs. For example, in the spousal program in 2016, spouses were waiting as long as 26 months on average to have their applications processed faster. Now the wait times for spousal applicants have decreased to an average of only 12 months. A few years ago, the backlog in the caregiver program was 62,000. It is now down 90%. Families under the caregiver program were waiting between five to seven years to reunite. It now takes 12 months to process their applications. We've reunited many families as a result of that.

While the parents and grandparents program continues to be very popular with very high volumes, the wait times again for this program have come down from seven years to a little less than two years.

Canadians also want to know whether we have a plan to integrate these newcomers, which is why we are also placing a major focus on settlement and integration programs. Recent research suggests that this is paying off.

Statistics Canada's labour force survey for December 2018 shows that the unemployment rate for working-age immigrants aged 25 to 54 was only 5.7%. This is the lowest unemployment rate for this group of newcomers since the survey began looking into this in 2006.

Our government believes that our immigration system continues to benefit both newcomers and all of Canada. I'm sure that the initiatives that I've noted today demonstrate our commitment to achieving these goals.

Thank you for this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister Blair.

[Bill Blair, Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As my colleague Minister Hussen has indicated, included in these estimates before you today is a total of $114.7 million, which is provided to ensure continued security at our border and fast, efficient, thorough processing of asylum claims.

The $114.7 million is comprised of $100 million for the assistance provided by the Government of Canada to be made available to provincial governments during this fiscal year, and an additional $14.7 million for other initiatives that I will also outline, shortly.

With this funding, the government continues to implement its plan to continue effectively managing and addressing the issue of irregular migration. As part of this plan, we remain committed to working collaboratively with provincial and municipal partners on the delivery of services to asylum claimants and irregular migrants, including on temporary housing.

I am proud to tell you that we continue to assess all claimants in a respectful and humane way. We provide them with needed services while their claims are being decided—Canadian law is being upheld and applied in an appropriate way. This includes interim federal health care and the early provision of work permits so they may live independently while they are undergoing the process of determining their eligibility as asylum claimants.

When it comes to processing work permits, we are continuing to beat and exceed our 30-day service standard on issuing work permits to asylum claimants. IRCC continues to work closely with all involved parties to ensure our contingency plans are continually updated and ready to respond to any future fluctuations.

We'll also continue to monitor conditions and developments in other countries to inform our planning, and, where we see trends emerging, to adjust our plans.

Budget 2018 has invested, as my colleague has said, over $174 million towards managing irregular migration by ensuring security at our border and by facilitating faster processing of asylum claims, and we are already beginning to see results from this work. In 2018, the number of irregular asylum claims decided by the Immigration and Refugee Board has increased by 95%, compared to 2017.

In addition, we are proactively engaging other countries to deter irregular migration. This includes direct and ongoing communication with the United States government and other governments around the world.

Let me assure the honourable members of this committee that we are working hard to maintain the integrity and the security of our border.

Everyone who crosses our border irregularly is intercepted, detained and subject to a thorough security screening including biometrics. Both photographs and fingerprints are taken at the border. Eligible asylum claims are then referred to the Immigration and Refugee Board for an independent assessment. All individuals who are found not to be in need of Canada's protection are subject to removal.

The actions we have taken are consistent with the balance we are seeking to achieve, a balance of ensuring that Canada is a place for those who genuinely need protection, but also safeguarding the integrity of our immigration system, and the safety and security of our citizens.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you very much.

Just a note that there is a debate going on in the House and we expect the bells to ring, but I think we will be able to continue through, and if we have unanimous consent, we can continue through and be able to get the full time with the ministers.

Mr. Ayoub, you have the floor.

[Ramez Ayoub, Thérèse-De Blainville, Lib.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank the ministers and the representatives of the two departments for joining us.

Immigration is both a major challenge and an important response to our labour shortage. Ms. Hussen, as you said, the results speak for themselves in terms of immigrant integration. The unemployment rate among newcomers seems very low. However, we're facing a labour shortage, particularly in Quebec. I want you to elaborate on processing times.

How can we reduce the processing times from seven to two years, either to reunite families or accept new immigrants?

The processing times are crucial when it comes to bringing new immigrants into the country, integrating them as quickly as possible—either through the labour market or through family reunification—and ensuring that they make a significant contribution to Canada.

Can you elaborate on this ?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Absolutely. It's a very important question.

When families are kept apart unnecessarily, it's not fair to them, and we should do whatever we can to reunite them. The spousal program is an example.

You asked me how we were able to do it. We were able to dedicate more resources and the department focused on this. I want to really give credit where credit is due, to the officials who worked tirelessly to reduce the processing time from an average of 26 months down to 12 months. It's working. It's holding at 12 months or fewer. As a result of that, many couples have been reunited. In addition to that, those who were in the backlog that we inherited are now reunited. That's important. Not just that, but in the caregiver category, the backlog is down by more than 90%. In the parent and grandparent category, it's the same thing. We're dealing with people who were separated and kept apart unnecessarily. We know that we could have done better, and we have done better by making the necessary investments.

It's not just that. It's also introducing new programs to address the needs of employers who have told us it takes too long to get talent to Canada. The global skills strategy has shortened the time to process highly skilled, temporary workers coming into Canada from a high of seven months to two weeks. That's a huge cultural shift and change that employers across the country are very happy with. We need to continue to be that aggressive when it comes to bringing talent into Canada, because investment follows talent.

[Ramez Ayoub]

You're here today to discuss votes. I want to know whether the previous backlog of cases was the result of political or economic will. I see the efforts that you're asking your departments to make, and I realize that you're giving credit to all these people, which they deserve. That said, I want to know whether there were political or economic reasons, at the time, for leaving applications pending for years. Given the lack of money, was the decision made to not invest in the processing of cases?

What specific changes have you made to the way that you achieve these results?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I think it was both. You're absolutely right. It took both. It took leadership and ambitious goals, but it also took investments. It took the necessary investments to make sure that we could process people faster and reunite more families, but also to introduce new programs that were suggested to us by the business community.

A lot of the good things that we have done in the immigration system have come directly from Canadians, and that is because we've spoken to them and got their feedback. I criss-crossed the country and held town halls and round table meetings. I listened to employers, listened to settlement service delivery organizations, municipal leaders and ordinary Canadians to make sure that we doubled down on what's going right. We listened to them on what more they would like us to do to improve the system.

[Ramez Ayoub]

I'll ask Minister Blair questions that are essentially along the same lines.

With regard to border security, has the same principle been applied politically and economically? Has there been any need to request funds to reinvest in security as a result of cuts and the streamlining of costs that led to the results we've seen recently?

[Bill Blair]

What I can tell you is that, first of all, we will never compromise the safety and security of our citizens, and there is an exceptional amount of good work being done all across our border.

We have made significant investments to ensure that we have adequate resources of RCMP, CBSA and IRCC at the border to process everyone who comes into this country. It has required a redeployment of resources and some additional resources to be dedicated to manage this effectively. Everyone who comes to the border in any fashion—over 95 million people were processed last year by CBSA—is screened to ensure that there is no risk of criminality or national security.

Anyone who crosses the border irregularly is subjected to a significantly enhanced screening process. They are detained by the RCMP. They are subject to significant and rigorous background checks and interviews. Biometrics are taken. Every step necessary is taken to ensure that anyone entering the country irregularly is subject to rigorous screening to prevent someone coming in who represents either a threat of criminality or security.

Frankly, our commitment to doing that is a commitment to be able to reassure Canadians that this situation is being managed safely. I often hear questions and concerns raised that this is a safety issue, and it's important to be able to reassure Canadians that every effort is being made to ensure that Canadian law is upheld and that the security and safety of our citizens is always our first priority.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm going to be a bit tight on time today to try to keep us going.

Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Ministers, based on statements that both you and the Prime Minister have made, it's my understanding that it's the opinion of your government that the safe third country agreement still applies. Is that correct?

[Bill Blair]

Yes, it does.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

We're here today to examine the supplementary estimates. That's where you come to us to ask for the committee to vote in favour of the big line item in here, which is $114 million to pay for housing and social services for people who have illegally entered the country from upstate New York and have subsequently claimed asylum in Canada.

You're asking us today to vote in favour of that expenditure.

[Bill Blair]

We're asking for the money that is required for those individuals who have claimed asylum in Canada. They are entitled under Canadian law to due process and while that process is taking place, we would provide them with temporary shelter.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

What we and many Canadians are confused about is that on one hand you say that the safe third country agreement—or the agreement that we have with the United States that essentially says that you can't claim asylum in one country if you do it in the other—applies, but on the other hand you're coming to us in a very large deficit situation, while you're increasing taxes on Canadians with things like the carbon tax, to vote in favour of spending $114 million on hotels and social welfare payments to people who, if they had entered the country legally, would not be able to claim asylum.

Basically, you're asking us to vote in favour of spending $114 million on hotels and social welfare payments for people who have reached upstate New York. Is that correct?

[Bill Blair]

No, it's not.

What we are asking—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You don't want us to vote in favour of $114 million for illegal border crossers or you do?

What are you here to do? We're all confused.

[Bill Blair]

I would like to provide an answer to your question, if I may.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

First of all, I think you've caused a lot of confusion for Canadians with this.

I'm going to try a different approach. You have this request in front of us, and Canadians are watching. Do you think it is fair to spend $114 million when you've had the Prime Minister go to Edmonton and tell a veteran that he's been asking for more than he can give, while you're increasing taxes for Canadians, or while there's a backlog of 70,000-plus cases for people who are being privately sponsored as refugees from places like northern Iraq?

Do you think that it is fair, in either of your estimations, to even come to committee to ask us to spend that money? Is it fair? Is this something that you want Canadians to think is a fair thing?

[Bill Blair]

I would tell Canadians that when people come to this country seeking asylum, they are entitled under Canadian law and by an international agreement to which we are a signatory—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You don't get to have it both ways—

[Bill Blair]

They are entitled to due process and during that process....

They're families, Michelle. They're people out on the street. We're not going to leave them out on the street or in the snow. We're going to accommodate them with reasonable accommodations—