Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 1st, 2019

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Shields, have you any thoughts about this?

[Prof. John Shields]

Yes. I agree with the comments that Christine has made.

Also, through the provincial nominee program, if you look at places like Manitoba, they've done a lot of work in this area. They've brought workers to communities and worked with employers to provide a workforce where it was very hard to recruit local people.

I think this cross-collaboration between employers and levels of government is really important. Various kinds of incentives can also be helpful in that regard. Being innovative and creative around that and giving some preference would be useful.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Speaking of Manitoba, I'll pass it to Mr. Maguire.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thanks to my colleague, and thanks to both of you for your presentations today.

Ms. Buuck, right at the end of your presentation you mentioned the building entrepreneurial excellence program. I am most intrigued by the fact that you're looking at the link to work by getting them into specific language training for that occupation. Am I correct there?

[Christine Buuck]

Yes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

You even allow them to proceed with a level one, rather than hitting those other higher targets.

My feeling has always been that if you can get someone in there to actually do the work and it's safe, then they will learn much more quickly.

[Christine Buuck]

Absolutely.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Can you expand on that?

[Christine Buuck]

As I said, it's very much a continuum. There's the integration piece but also the language piece. Literacy in level one, CLB-1, is certainly very little English. You may not have that individual right in the workplace, but you certainly would be working on vocabulary, on basic interactions that would take place in the workplace. That doesn't need to happen later on. That would be in addition to a pathway plan so that an individual.... You do that with an interpreter as well, so that someone who is coming in has someone doing one-on-one advising and providing a pathway.

I will pass it over to my colleague.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Shields.

[Prof. John Shields]

Yes, I'd agree with that. The more we can provide language in connection with employment and other connections with the community so that the immigrant can see the practical applications of this, the better the success rates are. Making more of those connections is important.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

That's an extension of what I want to ask now. You've talked about a pathway to employment as well, Ms. Buuck.

I've always talked about a pathway to permanent residency for individuals, and I am wondering if there is a connection there. Could you expand on how you yourselves, with your associates in the 13 colleges, are looking at what you think would be most valuable to make sure there is a link between the pathway to employment and a pathway to permanent residency?

[Christine Buuck]

That's a good question.

We've come around to this question many times. About 15 years ago, there was a project for colleges integrating immigrants to employment. A number of strides were made. The project was dropped, unfortunately.

The hallmark successes of that, though.... What's needed is credential assessment right up front. Also needed is clear communication regarding pathways. Colleges made strides in that. Another is programming directly related to the workplace. I would say that is one thing our college system is very nimble at. Our employers demand it and our economy expects it of us as well, so we have fast-track programs. I mentioned ECE programming, fast-track, community services.... The ECE graduates are now part of our child care program; these are newcomers working with newcomer children. We have fast-track programs in accounting, engineering, and many of these professions as well.

We need to make sure there's an advisement plan, there's programming and that the programming is relevant to the jobs.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Do you have anything to add, Mr. Shields?

[Prof. John Shields]

Yes, I think those are all really good suggestions.

I would say also for other immigrants or prospective immigrants, the pre-arrival services are really important. I think some of those services now are very, very targeted to specific types of occupations. They give really good information about the labour market and also about where to settle in Canada, where the jobs will be.

I also think for students, one of the good developments has been the movement towards greater access in terms of having work permits, so you have a—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to end it there.

Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much to our witnesses.

Part of the resettlement process, of course, is the pathway to employment. A lot of people run into the difficulty that they come to Canada and their credentials are not recognized here. As a result they are doing menial jobs that do not fit their training. I wonder whether or not you have any suggestions for how to break this impasse. People will say it's the professional associations themselves that need to deal with that.

If universities and other agencies were funded to do this, would there be an opportunity to properly assess the person's level of skill to match their credentials? B.C. actually has such an example for doctors. It's a six-month program where they actually go into a hospital and shadow a doctor who then can assess whether or not they meet the criteria to be a physician at that level. It's almost like a speed residency program. Once they complete it, they can make a determination of the level they're at and then they can go from there.

I'm wondering whether or not that's something that's at all feasible to do across the country. If there was funding to do this, and to do it for other professions as well, we could maximize and utilize the skills that are there.

We will start with Mr. Shields and then we'll go to Ms. Buuck.

[Prof. John Shields]

Yes. I think we need a lot more innovation on this level, and we need to be able to bring the employers into this and get them involved. Mentorship programs and bridge training programs are very useful, but I think a lot of the accreditation bodies are still very resistant to recognizing the skills and credentials.

I think innovations that bring such things as you mentioned there would be important. Australia does some interesting innovation around doctors serving more isolated communities, and using that to bring them into the mainstream. There are lots of different types of innovations in that regard.

I think working with the employers is often the most effective in terms of getting some recognition of the skill levels.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Buuck.

[Christine Buuck]

It is a very difficult question. As mentioned, the issue in many cases would be related to regulated professions and professional associations. What we find is that newcomers themselves are very creative, and we are with them. Many newcomers who are highly educated may not end up as doctors. They end up in one of our fast-track, health-related programs, as physiotherapists or nurses. It's a long road.

Civil engineers...a number of engineers who come may not end up as engineers. What they look to is a related profession. The college system has something similar to engineering, and it's a long road, close to engineering. They may not do exactly what they did in their home country, but it's closely related.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I was wondering whether or not institutions, universities and so on, can step up to assist with that assessment process. I'm aware of St. Paul's in Vancouver, for example, which is a teaching hospital. They can do that assessment if they're funded. When I inquired, it was going to cost $60,000 per assessment, for six months of one individual with physician training, but they weren't funded by the province. Consequently, the program never took off. I'm saying that if it could, we could actually go a long way.

In fact, at that time, we had a situation where there was a shortage of family doctors, especially in the rural communities. We went around talking to the rural communities themselves, and they said they would welcome these newcomers to be their physicians, if they had been properly assessed.

I'm wondering whether or not there is some capacity within universities and institutions to do this work. It doesn't sound to me like there is, which is disappointing.

I'm going to focus on another issue.

Professor Shields, you talked about the issue around family, and in particular, children. In your experience with children who are integrating and resettling into Canada, and the level of challenges they face, particularly around trauma, and sometimes a latent showing of trauma, have you seen that? What are your suggestions as to how to address that issue, so that we can support children and youth?

[Prof. John Shields]

Yes, I think it's particularly noticeable in terms of refugees. They've often been through very traumatic experiences. I think we need more in the way of mental health supports. More supports in the school system, in terms of counselling and settlement workers, also help. Children can't be dealt with in isolation. They have to be dealt with in the family context, so it's also the parents who have to be part of that system.

To some degree, children are also very resilient. In one regard, they tend to be healthier than Canadian-born children, but they also often experience these great emotional stresses that come out of particular experiences with their migration, especially in the refugee group.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have three seconds.

[Prof. John Shields]

I think we need more supports in those areas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

That's time.

Mr. Whalen.