It's a very good question. I think this type of assistance takes a long time to actually show itself, to materialize, and I'm not only talking about Ukraine but many of the countries I've worked in, especially for UNICEF. The important thing is that we don't look at short-term gains, but long-term gains.
Again, I mention the C-word, corruption in Ukraine, and I think there Canada can assist on two levels. One is the political pressure. In order for corruption to really disappear in Ukraine or to be diminished, if we can put it that way, political pressure needs to be leveraged. Also, and I'm not sure the Prime Minister brought it up during his recent visit, but Joe Biden, in his previous visit, sure let the Ukrainians know that they need to deal with it.
The other one is the practical training. Supporting organizations that monitor corruption, that monitor civil liberties, is very important. Again, I mention this because a lot of countries can spend a lot of money on training, that sort of thing, but if this pervasiveness, this attitude of corruption continues, these gains will be hard to realize, I'm afraid to say. Again, this observation comes from what I've seen in other countries as well.
I think our embassy in Ukraine, especially under Ambassador Waschuk has done a really good job in terms of mapping out and exploring how we can get the best bang for our buck in Ukraine. For example, he's talked a lot about that thriving IT sector, especially in western Ukraine, which is actually doing business with some world-class companies, including Canadian Tire, believe it or not. We need to help these sectors survive and thrive as much as we can.