Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 6th, 2016

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

You have talked about women specifically.

For the spousal visa, are any women having problems proving their legitimate marriage in certain parts of the world because of some cultural values, or because the person who is interviewing them doesn't know what culture they belong to or what is in their culture?

[Usha George]

Absolutely. The external perceptions of marriages from different parts of the world actually act as a big burden on these women. They have to prove that their marriage is legitimate. The data that is collected in this case, which is not culturally and linguistically sensitive to the background of the couple, can lead to quite misleading conclusions around the validity of the marriage and the genuineness of the partnership.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Yuen and Mr. Tachble. Have you found any difficulties relating to family reunification in certain parts of the world more than in other parts of the world?

[Dr. Admasu Tachble, Director, Settlement and Career Development, Centre for Newcomers]

This may be dependent on the kinds of criteria we set, particularly when we demand financial stability for the last three years in order to sponsor one's spouse or ones's parents. In some societies this might be easier, but particularly if you are African, the demands on the part of the sponsored people are much stiffer for them to fulfill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Tachble.

Ms. Rempel, you have five minutes, please.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll address my first question to Professor VanderPlaat, and then I'll go to Ms. Yuen.

First of all, for context, I moved to Calgary from Winnipeg when I was 24 years old. I wasn't moving to a different country, but certainly, not having any family in the city influenced my decision not to have any children, which continues to this day. I think the rationale around family reunification, that it allows women to perhaps have a greater and more significant participation in the workforce in Canada, is valid.

There's a perception issue in Canada that all of you addressed. You danced around it but I'm going to address it flat out. There's a perception that the parent and grandparent program is somehow a burden on the system. What I'd be very interested in as an outcome of this study are best practices on how we can communicate in a concrete way the value of these types of immigrants to Canada, such that the type of research you both mentioned is communicated to the public.

This would be my first question to both of you. Is there some best practice on how we can share stories and share that information in, perhaps, a more effective way?

Second, is there any data that either of you know of, or could point us to, that shows how many people out of that cohort end up on social assistance and why? Rather than saying, we don't want people coming to this, which is a value judgment, we could ask how we could help overcome those obstacles if they're there. Is language a determinant? There are these sorts of things we could ask.

I know this is a bit of a run-around question, but I'm wondering if you could talk first about how we can better communicate the validity of this program such that we can gain social acceptance. If you think that there are specific roadblocks to gaining social licence, if you will, for this program in the broader Canadian community, how can we address that? How can we look at data on the prevalence of social assistance usage and the reasons for it?

First, I address this to Professor VanderPlaat, and then to Ms. Yuen.

[Dr. Madine VanderPlaat]

As I said, I think the only way you're going to change perceptions is to do some research. Right now, everything that's being said and anything that's ever been said about parents and grandparents is pure speculation. The assumption, for example, is that they're old because the word “grandparents” is in there. It's just not true. Seventy per cent are under the age of 65. The average is 60. You can imagine the range there.

I think that there are numbers you can fight with—numbers and stories—that will really show how these parents and grandparents are connected to their families, but it's a big problem. For any data we do have, they are analyzed in isolation of the family they are attached to, so we have absolutely no idea of whether or not that family's income has actually increased because the grandmother is, for example, taking care of children.

Maybe I'm just being self-serving here as an academic but I think that, without the research, it's all just going to be talk.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I have a minute left, and I want to pass it off.

[Dr. Madine VanderPlaat]

The second—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. I only have a minute left.

Just very succinctly, could you point us to any research that's been done on the prevalence of social assistance usage for this cohort?

[Dr. Madine VanderPlaat]

Very little, but you have to remember, though, they had to be here for 10 years before they could apply, and it's 20 under the new legislation.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Sure.

Ms. Yuen.

[Anila Lee Yuen]

I just want to reiterate what the previous witness was saying. I think the way that we're going to best combat any of these assumptions will be based on research and based on fact. I think the more that we talk about it.... It is really up to our leaders, all of you in government, to be able to talk about those numbers, to be able to utilize those numbers, and to be able to say that when we do talk about it, it is a family unit.

My own grandmother didn't work, but I know for a fact that if she hadn't been there, then my mother wouldn't have been able to work. My mother brought in a full 50% of our household income. That allowed me and my brother to go to university, and me to be in the position that I'm in today, and I know that from many different sources.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Kwan, you have five minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much to all of these presenters. That was very informative.

Professor VanderPlaat, with the numbers that you did present at this hearing today, I wonder if you can provide that study and that information to our chair and to the clerk so it could be shared. I'm interested in looking at that study.

We heard from the delegation before you, and from your presentation, about the value of parents and grandparents when it comes to sponsorship. Right now we have a quota that was increased from 5,000 to 10,000, but within days and within hours of the quota being opened up for application, it was filled up. Some of our previous presenters said it should be increased from 10,000 to 30,000. I think there was a point where Mr. Wang, in Vancouver, or Mr. Ma, said maybe even unlimited.

I'm interested in hearing from you what that should look like? Should that number increase from 10,000 to some other number? I'll open it up to all three groups of presenters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Perhaps we can begin with Ms. George.

[Usha George]

I'm in no position to say it has to be unlimited, but definitely it is a matter of eligibility. Of course, the government and the committee has the right to define those eligibilities. It definitely has to be based on a need, the presence of children who need looking after, or after-school programs. As Madine said, there needs to be some studies. I would not directly advocate unlimited numbers because the entire immigration system is based on numbers. I would say it has to be within reasonable limits, as it is definitely too small for a country as large as ours—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. I don't know how many minutes we have now, but I need a quick answer from the others.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Mr. Yuen.

[Anila Lee Yuen]

I guess my statement to that, Ms. Kwan, is that if Canada wants to continue to attract the best and the brightest immigrants in the world, we can't do that by looking at them as individuals. We have to do that by looking at what is going to make them happy and fulfilled, and want to come to this country. That means allowing them to have the people they love, including their parents, come with them.

I don't know what an exact number would be, but I think that it's important that we look at the family as a whole unit. I wouldn't say unlimited, because we do have our own criteria for safety reasons and other reasons, as well. I would say, at least for the people who are here, that we've already allowed them to come, so let's try to increase their quality of life so they can really be the best possible Canadians they can be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Ms. VanderPlaat.

[Dr. Madine VanderPlaat]

I'll just add to that, you can also think about it in a regional context. Maybe allowing more in Atlantic Canada would help us to attract and retain more immigrants because we allow for more family unification. That might take pressure off the larger centres, where even though they may be contributing, it may be hard to provide all the supports.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Therefore, in one aspect we could correspond the number of the other categories that are coming in to be matched with families in terms of reunification. If I understood people's responses correctly, they're saying that, if we're allowing them in, they ought to be allowed to bring their families in and to be seen as a unit.

I'm just going to move on quickly to the financial aspect, because a lot of presenters and sponsor families are saying the threshold requirement is very onerous. Especially for new immigrants when they first come, their wages tend to be lower than their Canadian counterparts, for a little bit in any event. I wonder if you have comments about lowering that threshold to make it more feasible for people to be able to sponsor their families to come to Canada.

I think I only have seconds left, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I have 20 seconds, so five seconds each, very quickly.