Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2017

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you.

I wanted to apologize to all three of our guests, by the way, for the abbreviated amount of time, but let the record show that when Atlantic Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador had their moment here before this committee, others decided to hijack it for other reasons. We're used to that. Note the date, note the time, take down the names.

Thank you all very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Mr. Saroya, for five minutes, please.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your diligence in telling us what can be done.

I have a question for Sophia.

Sophia, I heard over and over again from students in Toronto that the fees are too high. I've been told that the fees for international students are three times those of the regular students. They can't find work, and sometimes they work for food. Sometimes they work for five bucks an hour cash under the table. Have you ever seen anything like this?

The question goes to you, or anybody else can jump in here.

[Sofia Descalzi]

Differential fees are, in my opinion, the first barrier to a student being able to come to or immigrate to Atlantic Canada. As an international student, I can say that it is very unfair. It just shows that there's really no respect for international students who want to come here and start their lives. Because we have those differential fees, because we pay 3.5 times more, and because we can only work part time, we are the biggest users of food banks. As a matter of fact, at MUN 60% of the bags were given to international students.

I cannot speak precisely of anyone getting paid cash and not having a contract, but I can definitely speak to the fact that international students are struggling in very difficult living conditions. We are not wealthy. We have to break the myth that international students are wealthy. We are not. We come here to escape different climates in our own countries and to make our lives here. We need to equalize all students across the board if we are meant to stay here.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Ms. Clark, would you have anything to add?

[Natasha Clark]

No, I don't.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I have a question for you, or Peter.

What do we need to do to get those people who come to the east coast to stay there? I have personally seen over the years people who have come to Saskatchewan, who get a phone number for Saskatchewan, who get a post office box number, and then move to Toronto.

Obviously, there is a disconnect between where people who come to the country are supposed to stay and where they actually stay. What would you suggest that the federal or provincial government do to keep those people where they're supposed to be, be that in Atlantic Canada or any other part of the country? What do we need to do to make it right?

Peter, go ahead.

[Peter Halpin]

It's a great question. I think the situation for international students isn't that different from that of domestic students when they graduate from post-secondary education. Their number one mission is employment. Finding a job or having the opportunity to begin a career, especially in a field that's commensurate with their studies, is critically important.

That's why I mentioned our Atlantic Leaders' Summit. We are going to focus on that issue, because we need to determine what the barriers are that are keeping employers from hiring international students to the degree we would like to see. Sofia did a great job outlining some of the challenges that international students face, not only while they're going to school, but when they graduate.

We really need to examine those issues very deeply. As I had mentioned in my remarks, it's all about collaboration, and that's one thing that we do very well in our region. There's a concerted effort at the present time, through the Atlantic growth strategy, to really focus on that key issue. One of the pillars is immigration and what we can do to be more welcoming of new Canadians and to do a better job of retaining our international students.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Sofia, how many qualified students do you know who have not found a job in their field, number one, or any job?

[Sofia Descalzi]

It is a very unrealistic expectation for international students to graduate and then find a position related to their field, particularly in a managerial position. That's one of the prerequisites to apply for permanent residency. I cannot really testify that I know of any. People try to find links between their programs and their new jobs, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you. Your time is up.

Ms. Kwan, you have five minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for their presentations.

I think the issue around foreign students is an important piece with respect to increasing immigration levels.

The issue around high tuition fees is a major barrier, as I understand, from you, Ms. Descalzi.

First, what do you think should be done around that piece?

Second, in terms of the current immigration policy as it stands for foreign students, do you think the changes are sufficient? Some changes have been made to the points system, and so on. Is that sufficient to retain the international students, or do you think more should be done? If you think more should be done, what do you think it should be?

[Sofia Descalzi]

Thank you for your questions.

I think the answer to the first one is very simple. You should just eliminate the financial fees for international students. Universities have to stop increasing their fees, which are completely unregulated, in the form of ancillary fees or any other sort of fee for internationals, or any student, actually.

The answer to the second question is, no, it's insufficient. I think we should be striving to improve those application forms and processes. There should be some sort of fast track for international students given that they're already here, they already know the language, and they have already assimilated into the culture.

The point system is very confusing. I'm going through it myself and I'm having a lot of trouble. Maybe explaining it better will also be helpful.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

There was a point in time when the process was that international students could make an application right off the bat into the permanent residence approach. Right now, they have to compete amongst each other and with other people who are applying to the system. By doing that, this so-called express entry system actually created major barriers, because you first must be qualified to be selected from the pool to make application for permanent residence based on the point system. That actually hampers the system. Some have said to me that the express entry system should actually be eliminated. It actually does not help the system. It's anything but express.

Can you quickly comment on that?

[Sofia Descalzi]

I am not very familiar with all the points or the history of entry systems, but I can definitely assure that we can improve it to make it easier for international students to stay here.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Does anyone else wish to comment on the express entry system?

Right now, that process hampers people from getting into the pool. You have to be selected first to enter the pool, so you don't actually get to make a permanent residence application right off the top. If we're talking about wanting to retain students and to get them into the system, shouldn't they be allowed to make a permanent residence application right off the top?

There is that saying, “If you're good enough to work, you're good enough to stay.” If you're good enough to study, you're good enough to stay.

[Natasha Clark]

I also feel that it's insufficient. The changes certainly have helped, but they don't go far enough towards helping international students and more pathways for permanent residency are needed. Particularly when we look at the post-grad work permit program, it's dependent on the length of your program of study. Those who are doing programs of two years or longer benefit greatly from a three-year permit. Those who are doing less than that, one-year programs, get a one-year postgraduate work permit.

There is an increasing trend in higher education for one-year masters programs. I believe that these individuals are just as desirable and qualified for permanent residency as those who conduct a four-year program. They then have to squeeze within that one-year posigrade work permit, that one year of Canadian experience, and then also score highly within the comprehensive ranking system.

When the Canadian experience class was introduced, it existed outside express entry. Then with the addition of express entry and the requirement that an applicant have more than 480 points to get in, it was really difficult. I don't think they had many Canadian experience class applicants through express entry, because they were going to federal skilled workers; they were going for nominees; they were going to job offers—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds.

[Natasha Clark]

—that were provided an LMIA exemption.

I don't think the Canadian experience class has lived up to what people had hoped it would. There were challenges in the beginning, and with express entry, there are still challenges.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I will close by saying that we need to make sure that the integrity of the immigration system is not being undermined; hence, my IRB motion. We need to get on with it if we want to make the system work for every single province, including the Atlantic provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Mr. Harvey, you have five minutes.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start by acknowledging Ms. Kwan's penultimate remarks about someone being “Good enough to work, good enough to stay” and “Good enough to study, good enough to stay.” I completely agree with her on the premise of those remarks, and with a lot of her line of questioning.

Mr. Halpin, could you elaborate on Atlantic Canada's true potential by our utilizing our international students better and better equipping them to transition into the economy once they've graduated in Atlantic Canada?

[Peter Halpin]

That's a great question. Thank you for asking it.

Through the research we've done among international students, one thing we've learned is that they really enjoy going to school in our region. We have very unique universities, among the oldest in the country, and we have many smaller liberal arts resident school universities.

I think, by and large, international students really enjoy the welcome they receive. I know Sofia suggested that it wasn't that great, but I think, by and large, international students do enjoy the Atlantic Canadian hospitality and warmth and sincerity of the people. From what I've learned, I think they appreciate the safety and security of our campuses and our communities. I think overall they have a great student experience. It's not without difficulties. We have to recognize that. It has to be a great challenge to come from another part of the world and go to school in a distant part of the world.

As I mentioned earlier, I think the key to our success around retention is this collaboration among all levels of government, the private sector, and our post-secondary education sector. There's no doubt in my mind that the timing for this has never been better. I've never seen the will to succeed in this regard being greater than it currently is in our region. This is a topic that is high on everyone's agenda at the present time.

I think right now the timing has never been better for us to develop a collaborative approach to doing a better job of making it easier for Sofia and other international students from across the region to stay.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

In my previous capacities in the private sector I used to tell the HR people in the company I was working with that I didn't care where they got me employees from. I just wanted them to get me the best. I didn't really care where they came from.

I still believe that would be true if I were in the private sector, because that's what's best for the business I'm working on behalf of; it's what's best for the community; and it's what's best for the province as a whole.

I went to school in Nova Scotia, at Dalhousie's agricultural campus. That was a dozen years or so ago now, but at that time some inequities were created just by grouping international students within that campus. I think they have made great strides in trying to address those issues. I can see how international students need the camaraderie of other international students, but they also need the acceptance of the student body as a whole.

Ms. Descalzi, I first want to remark on your incredible English, which I think is far better than my Atlantic Canadian English, which is not very good.

Regardless of whether it is the federal government—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds.