Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Sept. 28th, 2017

[Michael MacDonald]

At this stage, I'm not aware of any such agreement.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Okay.

We know that people are crossing the border principally at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle. That is the main place. Have you considered making Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle an official port of entry because that is where people are mostly showing up?

[Jacques Cloutier]

Thank you for the question.

A number of considerations are currently under study. We have various proposals to respond to the situation, including the one you mentioned, Mr. Bernier. They are currently being discussed, but there is no official position on the matter.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

In other words, the Government of Canada could slow the flow of irregular or illegal immigrants—depending on how you see the situation—by creating an official port of entry where people are crossing the border. That solution could be adopted if the government so decided. When could we be ready to put that solution into effect? Is it a matter of months or weeks?

[Jacques Cloutier]

Once again, this is one scenario that is being studied and that we are continuing to work on. I am not able to answer a question that remains hypothetical at the moment, a question that is under consideration, other than by saying that, operationally, a number of issues have to be weighed, validated and checked. That analysis is currently under way.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Okay.

Are we ready to deal with a second wave of irregular or illegal immigration? Have contingency measures already been taken in the wake of what has happened in the past? We can expect another wave of immigrants of different nationalities in the future. Are we ready for it?

[Jacques Cloutier]

We have already been working on contingency plans for several months, not only to deal with the situation like the one last summer, but also to prepare for the future, in the event of additional movements in other places in the country. That is what we are doing in collaboration with our colleagues at the Government Operations Centre.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Can you give us a little more detail on those contingency plans that you are studying, including the one we discussed earlier about an official port of entry at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle? What other contingency plans are you considering?

[Jacques Cloutier]

Again, as to the possibility of an official port of entry at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle—we are talking about Roxham Road—the question is being studied. I am looking at it from an operational perspective. Those are the considerations that interest me.

As for the contingency plans, once again, we have to consider our ability to set up, elsewhere in the country, a situation similar to the one that we have put in place at the port of entry at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, and, in collaboration with our colleagues at IRCC and the RCMP, to be able to respond to those situations to the best of our abilities.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Great. Thank you.

I would like to bring up the matter of analyzing criminal records of the people coming into the country. Earlier, we said that we look into the criminal records when it is possible, because we are noticing that people are leaving their identification papers or their passports behind in the United States. When you conducted that check in the past year, what percentage of the people actually had a criminal record?

[A/Commr Joanne Crampton]

I'm sorry, I don't have that exact number with me. I would be able to provide it.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Yes, perfect.

Also, how many people did you ask to leave the country because they had a background of judicial proceedings for behaviour that is against our law in Canada? Can you give us the data on that?

[The Co-Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Crampton, there remain 15 seconds or less. Thank you.

[A/Commr Joanne Crampton]

In terms of the RCMP's role, we're simply looking at threats to Canada, threats to security, so our role is very different. CBSA would be more engaged in that area.

[The Co-Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

We would like to receive that information. Thank you.

[The Co-Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, all six of you, for being here today. Thank you for your service and your important work.

This is a joint session that reflects the increasing complexity of the work that faces parliamentarians. I'd like to thank our two chairs for the leadership it took to make this meeting happen.

I'd like to focus my questions on the human elements of the situation we're facing—the qualitative side—from the perspective of the claimants but also of the women and men who do the law enforcement and immigration analysis work.

I'd like to start with a question on the running of security checks. My colleague Ms. Zahid alluded to it earlier.

Canadians want to be sure that they are safe. When you face applicants who have potentially no background documentation, and face claimants from jurisdictions that may not co-operate with requests for security background checks in their jurisdiction, how can we be sure that the people who are being admitted to Canada have actually gone through a background check that is as close to perfect as we can get it?

[Jacques Cloutier]

On this very point, I think it's important to note that as we conduct our verification at the port of entry through biometric record checks, if there are concerns around the identity of the individual who presents, that person will likely be detained until that ambiguity can be resolved. In the process of reviewing the claim as such, it is suspended until we're satisfied that we know who the person is and what the history of that person is.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay.

Now let me ask, from the perspective of a constituency politician who often gets inquiries on immigration cases—when it comes to security background checks in particular—is it fair to say, then, that this is one of the most labour-intensive aspects of the department's work and also potentially one of the most time-consuming and lengthy?

[Jacques Cloutier]

It's a lengthy process, in that it's one that we do in a very regular manner; it's labour-intensive in that our preoccupation is to ensure the safety of Canadians as we go through the process. It's one, however, that we do on a daily basis. It's more obvious now because of the situation that evolved over the summer, but these types of verification happen on a daily basis at all of our ports of entry. It's very much part and parcel of what we do. It's what I was referring to earlier when I talked about our dual mandate: facilitation, but also ensuring the protection of Canadians.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to ask you about your perception of the stories that are coming our way. I realize that you are not on the front lines, but from what you've heard working with colleagues, what is the story of this particular group of applicants who have come through our borders in the past months? What kind of narratives are there, what kinds of challenges, just to make it real for the Canadian public about who is coming our way here?

[Michael MacDonald]

I'll answer that question, Chair.

In response to an earlier question, I can say that, as part of the eligibility determination process at IRCC, we have had some very limited conversations with people, asking them some very basic questions about why, what they were thinking, how they ended up here, and so on.

Again, overall, you are talking about over 32,000 asylum claimants. Getting a general sense is difficult. However, what we have learned from the interviews of admissibility, eligibility, and then some of the questions we've asked—plus the outreach, the conversations that have gone on in the United States and elsewhere—is that a variety of factors are pushing people north. I'll be quite honest. Social media is a very significant factor in how people are making what looks to be a very quick decision in their life overall. It's not any one particular reason why people are moving. Some people are very much fearing persecution for themselves from their government. Others are just following a trend on social media.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Very briefly, because time is limited, what are the gender-specific aspects of your work? Are there gender components, both on the law enforcement and on the immigration side?

[Michael MacDonald]

Maybe I'll just go with the immigration side. Overall, when you look at the movement through Lacolle, in particular, it tends to be males, primarily. However, there are a significant number of children. The age variation is usually between 30 and 50 years in the adult population, and the children are a variety of ages. Again, this is not necessarily different from normal trends. However, we are seeing a good number of children coming with family units.