Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 17th, 2017

[Bill Allen]

There are a lot of people who work for me now who have always had to work internationally at one location or another and not be with their family on a regular basis. Almost all of them have brought their families to Canada and have settled in.

The only danger of coming in completely with permanent residency is that there's a transition period that takes place for temporary foreign workers when they're on their first work permit. They're in a rural area, and it takes a while for them to get comfortable, integrated, and meet the other people in the community and their co-workers. Eventually they get settled in. The anxiety ceases. With that one-year work permit under the LMIA and then the provincial nomination piece, it really helps the consistency of integration. By that time, they've settled into the community, as has their family. It helps with the maintenance and the retention of those employees where they're at in our regions.

I think that slows down the process to a certain extent, but it helps them get settled in the communities where they originally intended to be.

[Luc Erjavec]

The danger sometimes, although it's not always the case, is that if they're unhappy or uncomfortable, they'll say, “I will be happier with a bigger community of people of my same nationality”, and then move to Toronto or Vancouver. That's always a risk. It really worked well with the transition where they got to test-drive their employer and the community.

[Bill Allen]

I think my retention speaks to that. It's really rewarding when you see these people who have come in under a one-year work permit...it would be ideal, too, because it's very difficult to get them enrolled in the provincial nomination program within that first year. But by the time they get through their provincial nomination certificate, they're streamed to permanent residency and they've established a stability base with their families in the community. They stay. It's a win-win for Atlantic Canada, for the employers, and it's great integration.

There were times when, in the middle of a snowstorm, I'd be concerned about how my employees, especially some of the temporary foreign workers, were going to get home. At the end of the shift, at midnight, I'd go down to one of our restaurants to make sure they could get home okay. Four of my other Canadian workers would be there to greet them and to do the same thing. They were that attached to these new people.

I think those are heartwarming stories.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes. Well, then you build communities.

[Bill Allen]

Right.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's what you're talking about. I firmly believe that our immigration policy builds our nation. It built our nation previously. This is our 150th birthday.

[Bill Allen]

I completely agree.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Our great country has been built by the people from all faces of the world, right?

[Bill Allen]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

We're now talking about that. The pathway to permanence is so significant. Separation from families is a very big deal. I've heard from very many families who have had to endure that separation. The heartbreaking stories are just breathtaking.

Of course, with the Atlantic provinces, people are talking about the low birth rate. Maybe if you have your families there, you may actually...you know, get to work on some other business as well.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Bill Allen]

And that happens; I can attest to that. I've seen a lot of that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

But I digress. I want to get back to this other issue. The government actually talked quite proudly of this pilot program. Now, I have not experienced the pilot program, but you sure as heck have. I would love to hear from you. I don't know how many minutes I have left to hear all the things that they need to fix. If we can't get that from you today, verbally, perhaps you can send it to us in writing so that we can actually incorporate it, I hope, into this report of things that the government can do.

The program I think was initiated with the best of intentions—

[Bill Allen]

Exactly. It was somebody with great intentions.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—except it's a disaster, by the way it sounds.

[Bill Allen]

Right.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe you can start. Tell us what things we need to fix. Otherwise, this program is as good as, well, a pile of garbage, really.

[Bill Allen]

There's the complexity of the employee having to handle the language skills testing and the skills credentials. The settlement piece that was added and layered onto this new program is very complex for someone to complete and go through the consultation wherever they need to do that.

That was never required under the temporary foreign worker program. We would greet someone at the airport on arrival. They would have entered the country and obtained their work permit. We'd spend a week getting them settled, finding a spot, and helping them get some accommodations and some furniture, whatever the case was. That was never an issue. But it's a very cumbersome piece of this one.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I have less than two minutes, and I want to ask a question about the language test. This has come up in other panels before.

[Bill Allen]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The requirement is a level 4, but when you get to the permanent residence application process, it's a level 5. For certain work, maybe that is even too high a level. This is not to say that a person should not speak English. Of course they should, to a certain degree. What level do you think should be required? Is it a level 4 or a level 5 in both written and verbal?

[Bill Allen]

I have not had any problems with the level of skill of the people that I recruited. Usually, they are related to some of my current employees.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I see.

[Bill Allen]

They all have scored level 6 or higher. So I haven't had any experience with that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I see. Okay.