Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

But you said that it was not out of order about—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chairman, you're correcting us. We're correcting you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you. That would be a point of debate.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Then stop interrupting our debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

This is actually my time. Thank you very much.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You have no time, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Go ahead, Mr. Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ambassador, welcome.

I had the opportunity earlier this month to visit Cox's Bazar and in fact meet with some of your folks. I had the benefit of looking at the work that you do on the ground. I want to first and foremost thank you and your team for the efforts, particularly in Cox's Bazar in Bangladesh. In that country there is a significant amount of poverty, yet over the past 30-odd years they've taken in over one million people, and most recently, as you've indicated, I believe 655,000 is the number.

I'll just pick up on that. You indicated in your remarks that there's some potential and desire for some individuals to go back to Rakhine State. The indication that I have, having spoken to a number of people, is that they're very apprehensive. There's definitely a pattern over the last number of decades of people coming and going to Bangladesh on a number of occasions. For example, an 87-year-old woman whom I met—she was there in 1978—had gone back and come back twice.

I think the challenge in a situation like the Rohingya is that it's not really up to Bangladesh and Burma to come to an agreement on resettlement. There needs to be some international assurance to secure their safety.

What lessons do you have, and what advice can you offer in terms of ensuring that those who return do have that safety parameter so that it's not just temporary and is much longer term?

[William Lacy Swing]

I wish I had an answer for you. Clearly, until you can convince the military that these people are from Burma, from Myanmar, and that they've been there for generations....

The military is trying to sell a fiction that these people are really Bengali and came there from Bangladesh and have never been citizens of Myanmar, and everybody knows they are. What happened was when the British drew the line, if they had drawn it a little further to the east, they would have been in Bangladesh, but it happened that because of where the colonial line was, they were there.

There are more than 120 ethnic groups in Myanmar, and this is the only one that is singled out for persecution, to be driven out of the country. They are not from Bangladesh. Somewhere along the line, with elections coming up and so on, between Aung San Suu Kyi and the military there has to be some understanding that they belong there and they're coming back. That's going to take a lot of international presence, in addition to a lot of international money to rebuild those Myanmar villages that have been burned. More importantly, they have to be guaranteed that they won't be persecuted again.

I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. It's going to take a lot of pressure from the UN. I'm going back there in the next couple of weeks. I don't see right now anything happening of significance in the very near future. We would like to see them take an initial group back to see if it works, but they aren't going back if there are not conditions of safety and dignity, and if they can't go back voluntarily. I wish I had an answer; I don't.

For the time being, we are going to have to continue to take care of 850,00 to 860,00 Rohingya refugees who are not only refugees but stateless people. They have no citizenship. We have to take care of them until such time as they can return or be resettled elsewhere. The record is not good on Rohingya resettlement. There were 40,000 Rohingya refugees there who had been there for 20 years. They've only resettled 6,000. The record is not good.

I'm sorry I can't be encouraging.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Part of the challenge there is exit visas from Bangladesh. My understanding is that even if resettlement is offered, then there is an obstacle with respect to difficulties in getting exit visas from Bangladesh. Have you had any discussions with the government of Bangladesh on this?

[William Lacy Swing]

No, not up to now.

What we've been trying to do with the Bangladesh government is to urge it to continue to be as generous as it has been up to now and not to look for offshore solutions.

At one time it was talking about putting them on an island offshore. We felt that was not a good arrangement, that their conditions of safety and proper housing could not be guaranteed, and we urged it to keep them in Cox's Bazar until other arrangements could be made. It's one of the major challenges that we and UNHCR and others face, and we're all going to be there for a long time to come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. Anandasangaree.

Thank you, Ambassador, for this time with us. It feels too short. I would like to have much more time, but I know we don't and you don't. I hope your trip to Canada is good for you as well. Thank you for 10 years of work on Canadians' behalf with the IOM. I'm really looking forward to your next career.

[William Lacy Swing]

Thank you. I'm sorry I haven't been able to answer all the questions. I have several follow-ups to several of you. There's the 2015 audit, and I know I owe you an answer also. I'll get back to you. If there are others, I'll leave you my card.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you very much. We'll take a brief break. Then we'll move to an in camera meeting.

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]