Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 15th, 2018

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and your officials for coming today. This is great. I'd also like to thank you for your support and the support you've shown to the committee in our study on paragraph 38(1)(c) of the act on medical inadmissibility. I look forward to your response on April 12. If there's anything I can do, I would love to help see some changes to this. I know you're very committed to it.

The case numbers look small. Let me tie this back to the levels plan. If a change, to repeal or change paragraph 38(1)(c), is implemented, does it have any meaningful impact on levels?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

According to the existing numbers and existing patterns, the answer would be no. I don't want to preclude our official response, but for argument's sake, if the whole provision didn't exist, there might be the same percentage or it might increase. It's hard to tell at the moment, but the numbers are small.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

It seems to me, with 900 per year, that they are roughly within the margin of error of the plan that's presented.

I think this is historic. I'm glad that you're here to present this plan. The three-year plan looks as though it's going to benefit families, all sectors of the economy, and all areas of the country. If you could speak a little bit to how this plan will concretely benefit families, we'd love to hear it.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

It will benefit families because we are seeing an increase there to make sure that we continue the progress we've made to bring down substantially the backlog in the spousal program, but also to deal with the backlog in the parent and grandparent program.

The fact that we doubled the allocations from 5,000 to 10,000 in the parent and grandparent program is important. We will have an increase in both the spousal and the parent and grandparent program. We have to continue to make sure that family reunification remains a priority for us, and these multi-year levels will enable us to do that.

It will also enable us to have the flexibility to be nimble enough between years. The problem with the one-year plans was that they were fixed within that year. If you didn't meet your target or if you exceeded it, you couldn't really adjust or respond or be flexible enough. In this case you can, because it's three years.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Where we have the highs and the lows and the targets demonstrated, if, in a particular year, say, in year one or year two, we are closer to the high, will we receive a new report from your department that says now we're going to rejig because our end goal is 1% immigration, and this three-year plan only gets us to 0.9%? If we're able to shoot past in year one or year two, will we see an adjustment in future years?

Will you be essentially presenting to us a new three-year plan every year?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

It's hard to speculate on that but I can of course assure you that the number of people we are able to land in different categories will inform us for the next levels planning process.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

In terms of economic growth and the growth in the PNP program, can you speak a little to how the provinces are receiving this, and whether or not they share your view that this will help grow their economies?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes, in fact one of the main reasons we had this ambitious growth in the numbers is the provinces. The provincial economies are doing very well, and they had asked us to help them meet the soaring demand for workers and for skilled labourers in certain aspects of their economy. They feel that the provincial nominee program has been working really well for them, and they've constantly been asking for increases. This year, you see an increase every single year as part of the three-year plan.

By the time we get to 2020, we will have answered their call by increasing the admissions to their programs by 33%. In fact, if no program grows more or as fast as the.... This program is growing faster than all of the other programs that we have. It speaks to the needs of the provinces for more and more workers. The benefit of the provincial nominee program is that it spreads the real benefits of economic immigration all across the country and not just in the main cities.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

That's great to hear.

In terms of the additional resources that will be required within the department, what type of information can we expect to see from your department or your ministry next year and the following year regarding resource allocation and whether or not there are efficiencies of scale, whether or not we're able to hit these targets, and the additional resources that are required to hit them?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

All of that information is public. We publicly post all that information. We provide it. We'll also continue to provide that information to this committee.

The specific amount of money we will get moving forward as a department will come out in the budget. Having said that, these increases have been budgeted for. They'll be funded accordingly. Secondly, in terms of settlement, in terms of employment orientation, general orientation, all that is supported.

In terms of the targets, the numbers that we've told the committee are the numbers, but in terms of whether we are able to achieve a certain target within a year, we'll also be able to provide that information to the committee.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

In terms of the situation at the irregular border crossings and the number of additional people who are coming into Canada in an irregular fashion and claiming asylum, I think Ms. Rempel has raised the spectre of whether or not the levels are high enough to accommodate that influx, and whether every year or two there will be a different group who will be attempting to come to Canada from the United States.

I wonder how much flexibility there is in growing these targets for the “humanitarian and other” ground and for the “refugees and protected persons” ground, perhaps over time, to accommodate this influx. In the same way as with spousal reunification, you increased the numbers at the same application rate to enable the backlog to be cleared. Is there a potential to do the same thing as this levels plan progresses?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Very quickly, we've always had space in our immigration plan for refugees but also for protected persons. The two are actually separate. It's important to know that before asylum claimants can actually apply for permanent residency, they have to have their claims heard and accepted by the Immigration and Refugee Board. If they're not accepted, they don't get to apply, which means they leave our country and they're not part of the equation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Rempel, you have five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Minister, in your remarks, you talked about immigration in terms of meeting Canada's labour shortages, yet your government reduced the number of additional points awarded for job offers through economic streams from 600 to 50.

How many people coming through our economic immigration streams over the next three years do you expect to enter Canada with a job lined up?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The job offer still gets you points. The reason we reduced those points was that we felt that people, like international students, for example, were not getting the points they deserved based on their potential and their experience.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That's not the question that I asked.

The question that I asked was, how many people do you expect to enter the country through an economic stream, in the period that the levels plan cover, that have a job lined up?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

It's a point system, so you get points for various things, not just the job offer. The reason we lowered those points was that having a job offer disproportionately advantaged some people, because everything was based on the job offer, virtually everything, instead of the language, the degrees, the educational background, and so on. That's why we did that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

But one could argue that an economic immigration stream is to bring in people to become employed—I'm just saying—so I'll ask my question again.

How many people entering Canada over the period of the levels plan do you expect will have a job upon entering Canada?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

For the provincial nominee program, for example, most of them have job offers.

Express entry is different. We felt that the points that were given to people who had a job offer were so disproportionate that they didn't account for all the other things we want from prospective immigrants. That's why we did that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Again, how many people do you expect to enter through the express entry program to have a job when they come to Canada?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

That's impossible to say because people are given points for the variety of things they bring to the table, not just a job offer.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would you not argue that the express entry system is designed specifically to bring people to Canada to become employed?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The express entry system is designed to attract the best and the brightest from the world to help us.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

To become employed...?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Among other things. It's also to transfer skills, to transfer productivity—