Evidence of meeting #27 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meat.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Let me try again, and I'll hopefully be speaking loud enough that you can hear me.
You mentioned the temporary resident to permanent resident program. That stream doesn't have an educational requirement. Do you want to see more programs like that with spaces specifically for workers like yours?
Vice-President, Public Affairs and Communications, Canadian Meat Council
I think we're reasonable. For the agri-food immigration pilot, for example, the education requirement is often a problem, because it's hard.
In Quebec, with their program, you need a high school diploma from your home country equivalent to Canada's. That doesn't make sense. There's no grade 12 in the Philippines. You bring in a worker who can't demonstrate that, and you're kind of handcuffed.
Thankfully, we got the government to agree, for the agri-food immigration pilot, that a home equivalency would be the same thing. In the Phillippines that's a grade 10, and that should be our high school diploma. We need to be nimble. We need to be able to recognize that.
Also, we need to accept them on skills training. When they come here there's no better education than my members teaching them how to do that job. You can have a university degree, but it doesn't mean you know how to cut meat. The skills learned here are really critical.
I'll pass it on to Janet because I think she can really add to this.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Maybe we can come back to her.
I only have a very short time.
Mrs. Poitras or Mrs. Laplante, do you want to see new, more flexible and faster pathways for workers like those you employ to access permanent residency and fill specific positions?
Director, Human Resources, Aliments Asta Inc.
I'm sorry, but I didn't hear the beginning of your question.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
All right.
Do you want to see new, more flexible and faster pathways for workers like yours to access permanent residency and fill specific positions?
Director, Human Resources, Aliments Asta Inc.
Yes, indeed. That's what we indicated briefly. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about that, since I didn't have time to do that earlier.
We would indeed like to see more flexibility in the permanent selection of workers, and make it easier for temporary foreign workers to access permanent residency. Currently, for workers, it is difficult to obtain the selection of Quebec. We would like the federal government to step up its discussions with the Quebec government to better coordinate pilot programs.
When a temporary foreign worker obtains permanent residency or begins the permanent selection process, a spot opens up in the temporary foreign worker program. In other words, it gives us flexibility, given the limit on the number of workers we have. People want to get permanent residence in Canada. We all want the process to be faster.
We also need to give these workers the opportunity to reunite their families, through work permits for spouses or study permits for children, for example. This would help our recruitment and it would help us attract new temporary foreign workers.
In short, we would very much like to see faster processes to bring in temporary foreign workers and to allow them to access permanent residence.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Ms. Krayden, in your view, are players aware of what the minister announced earlier this week, the new pathways to permanent residency for temporary foreign workers in quite a few occupations? If so, how receptive are players to these measures?
Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association
Yes, they're very receptive, and we're going to be supporting as many workers as possible within the new pathways. However, we are concerned. I've spoken with the immigration consultants, and we feel that it will likely fill up by June. For our 30,000 quota, we're competing against construction and trucking, which also have an immense labour shortage.
That's why we're saying you should make an education adjustment within the agri-food immigration pilot, so that we can also fill up the 2,750 spots. We want to make this more accessible for the workers. We feel their skills and experience on Canadian farms and in the plants should be recognized. It is education on the farm and in the plant that matters, not that they have the right university or high school diploma, which is almost impossible to get right now. The village schools are closed because of COVID, so we can't get anything to the Canadian assessment company.
We're very concerned, and we think there's a primary blockage to our using the agri-food immigration pilot, which we were hoping to use for the 2,750 spots.
Liberal
Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association
That's the other thing. We're hoping for education from the department, and we did ask for that on Friday. We would like them to provide a webinar for the employers, to start with them, before the end of May. We specifically asked for that. Within—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Krayden, but Mr. Regan's time is up.
We will now proceed to Madam Normandin.
Madam Normandin, you will have six minutes for your round of questions. Please proceed.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I thank all the witnesses, whose comments have been very informative.
You brought up an issue the other witness panels have not discussed. Like you, they talked about costs and the lack of predictability for workers and for employers. But you talked about something I think we should start working on as of today, and that's food sovereignty. We have seen the importance of that aspect in the context of the crisis. I would like you to tell us more about this issue, which is at the root of your requests, beyond costs and the impossibility of growing businesses. I would like you to talk about the labour shortage's impact on our food sovereignty.
I would also like Ms. MacKinnon and Ms. Poitras to talk about the impact of that shortage on animal health. Livestock cannot be kept indefinitely without being slaughtered.
Can you talk to us about those aspects, which have not been covered by other witness panels so far?
Executive Director, Aliments Asta Inc.
I have often discussed that with Government of Quebec representatives. Food policy and food sovereignty are often talked about in Quebec. However, I have made it clear that we will not be able to achieve this as long as we have no workers on site.
Canadian and Quebec consumers want boneless cuts of meat, but we cannot make those available to them, as we do not have enough workers. So we are selling our meat wholesale to other countries, which I find appalling, as we have always prioritized Canada before exporting our products to other countries. Unfortunately, the labour shortage makes it impossible for us to proceed with a secondary processing of meat to meet the needs of Quebeckers and Canadians. So that leads to more meat exporting.
You are perfectly right to raise the issue of animal health. As a number of slaughterhouses have been affected by COVID-19, there has been a significant surplus of hogs in Quebec and in Canada. That is still the case, as there have been other cases in our region and in various provinces, resulting in a number of problems. We have even considered engaging in welfare slaughter of hogs, but I don't think that is a solution. Some flexibility in terms of our workers would have helped us. It would have enabled us to address the absences caused by COVID-19 and isolation. There is no flexibility in that respect, and that is very scary.
We have fallen far behind. At Aliments Asta, 30,000 hogs are currently waiting. Every effort should be made to resolve the situation. Employees have had to self-isolate, and we already had no flexibility. In that kind of a context, the labour shortage has really hurt our business.
We are worried about what will happen this summer. Many employees will take time off, and I don't know whether we will be able to carry out slaughter activities every day. This situation is stressing me out on a daily basis.
Vice-President, Public Affairs and Communications, Canadian Meat Council
I would just like to comment on the issues Mrs. Poitras brought up. Aliments Asta is a member of the Canadian Meat Council, but I can speak for all of our members from coast to coast to coast. In western Canada, people are experiencing the same problems Mrs. Poitras mentioned. The COVID-19 pandemic has shown that to us. You have all seen the headlines about our meat processors that had cases of COVID-19 and had to close, despite all the efforts they made to prevent infections.
This is a problem for producers. We can no longer recruit anywhere, and we no longer have any flexibility in the system, as Mrs. Poitras was saying. So as soon as a minor labour shortage occurs, as soon as COVID-19 hits and a production chain is affected by the pandemic, it causes a lot of upstream problems for producers and downstream problems for those waiting for our products.
These issues are not unique to Aliments Asta. Companies across the country are dealing with this.
Executive Director, Aliments Asta Inc.
In closing, I would say that it's not even just a problem related to COVID-19. Summer is coming, and that is becoming an issue because of employee vacations. For me, as a member of the new generation, and for the company's human resources, it is stressful to never know whether we will be able to maintain our operations this summer. It is also stressful for my workers, who must perform miracles to ensure that everything is working. I must say that the upcoming summer is a major source of stress for me.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
You talked about the lack of flexibility.
Ms. Krayden, I see that you also want to answer. I will come back to you right after.
Would the situation improve if you had more flexibility—for example, if work permits or visas lasted longer and were not just closed permits for a single employer, even a single specific position in a given franchise?
Executive Director, Aliments Asta Inc.
In our case, we want a permit for Aliments Asta, as we do not need to move our temporary foreign workers to other slaughterhouses.
I can let Mrs. Laplante give you more details.
Director, Human Resources, Aliments Asta Inc.
The longer the duration of work permits, the more ensured we are of operational stability. After the pilot program ends, we would like work permits to remain of a duration of 24 months, and not 12 months as the case has been over the past few years. That would give us some flexibility for renewals. Red tape should also be discussed. Currently, we must renew work permits every six months before they expire, so we are always buried in paperwork.
In addition to long-term permits, we would like to see permits that, after 18 months, for example, would give us an opportunity to offer our temporary foreign workers permanent jobs, with a closed work permit. That would enable them to take steps with the provinces and not have to double up on those steps. That way, they could apply for permanent selection and renewal under the temporary foreign worker program.
So 24-month work permits would be good, but they should be coordinated even better with permanent selection programs.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Your time is up.
We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan for six minutes, please.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses.
From what I'm hearing from everybody, there is a tremendous labour skills shortage in your sectors and you would like to have permanent programs, people who can come and who will want to come and stay.
From that perspective, I'd love to hear from you whether you have any specific recommendations on what that number might be. If the government were to make an announcement on a permanent program for your sector, what would you like to see? What would that number be?
Maybe I will start with Ms. Krayden.
Workforce Expert, Canadian Mushroom Growers' Association
Yes, for agriculture and agri-food the shortages are immense. Marie-France talked about 4,000. That's what we're talking about for meat processing. The Canadian Agricultural HR Council explained the shortage for the primary agriculture, but we're happy to start with the 2,750 pilot that we have currently with immigration, the agri-food immigration pilot. We just need the fixes done so that we're allowed to fill it.
Last we heard in December, we only had about 150 who were able to use the pilot at this point. The primary recommendation we have is to allow us to make the changes that make sense for the workers and that would allow us to fill the pilot, and to recognize the experience of the two years in the plant and on the farm as an additional pathway, not just the high school certificate in the village school. This is what makes sense for the workers so that we can get maximum usage of our 2,750 spots.
We're afraid they're going to tell us it's not successful, but we just haven't had a chance to use it. We're still fighting to get the right kinds of criteria to support the workers and the farms and the plants so that we can fill those job vacancies. Let us fill the job vacancies and then we can work from there, but help us fix the pilot. That's what we're asking your support for.
We have a joint report that will be distributed, I guess, next week—it's not translated yet—with the meat council and mushrooms, explaining our recommendations for the agri-food immigration pilot.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Does anybody else have aspects to add, to the number more specifically, in regard to the program, or are you all in agreement with what has been offered?
Vice-President, Public Affairs and Communications, Canadian Meat Council
I agree with Janet. Clearly, we're very aligned. Beef, pork and mushrooms go hand in hand when you eat them.
The biggest number you have to think about is less about the programming. Yes, we could use more paths to PR, but the options we have now are workable. They're a solution. The agri-food immigration pilot is great. The cap is the number we need to look at, the removal of the cap or allowing our sector to go from 10% to 30%. Let us have a chance to work with what we have, but fill that void with temporary foreign workers by raising the cap. The cap would be a huge solution to our industry.
Édith, do you want to add anything?