Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 27th, 2020

[Syed Farhan Ali]

Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

The main thing we have suffered is that there were so many unpredictable delays in the processing. If we are asked to submit additional documents, it means another six months to get a reply from them.

There are two different systems, ECAS and GCMS. Some people have access to GCMS and some people have access to ECAS. Those on ECAS are totally in the dark. It's a dark tunnel. We get an update, like your medical is clear or whatever, and then there's nothing again.

Criminality checks, “security checks” as they call them, cause a long delay after you pass your eligibility. My eligibility took two years. Mine is a second marriage, and it's a huge, huge red flag. It took me a long time to justify that my marriage is genuine and I love my wife and kids.

There are so many things we have suffered, we have gone through. We have spent thousands of dollars to meet each other just to hold my kids in my arms. We have been through a lot, and so many mental stresses, health issues and anxiety. We have been through a lot.

Now my application has been approved, thankfully—thank God for that. Because of the support of my group, we got it approved. Still, I'm here in Pakistan and I'm waiting to be united with my family.

Thank you.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Again, we appreciate your courage in sharing and being a voice for the rest of the group. We're so glad to hear that your application was finally approved. I know there were so many others who spoke at that rally whose applications aren't approved. They're in such dire need for this.

You touched on some very, very important things. I want you, and if Ms. Dubé would like also, to chime in on these.

We know that these delays have real-life impacts, especially on people's personal lives, not only just for the sponsors but for the applicants—the whole family. As you said, there are missed birthdays. You don't hear your kids speak for the first time, or even see them walk. These are major milestones for any parent. I'm a parent, as well. You want to be there, to hug your kids. You don't get to celebrate holidays together. The effects that are mental and physical on your health are enormous, not to mention the financial burden, because that's a huge burden on its own.

I'd like you to chime in on what you've been hearing from the rest of the group as well as some of the other heart-wrenching stories. I really want to put on record where you feel that the Liberal government has failed, or this minister has failed, in being able to respond to you properly.

[Chantal Dubé]

Thank you.

Just to be clear, I think a lot of the ongoing issues that we are facing have been around for many years. We certainly don't want to pin them on any government in particular. We only wish for them to be addressed in such a way that the system can be improved on an ongoing basis well into the future so that others won't have to suffer the same troubles that our group members have suffered.

We have stories of members who have been through multiple attempts to bring their spouses to Canada over the course of many years. They have been refused for reasons they could not understand. They have children between them. The pandemic, with the additional seven-month delay to the existing lengthy wait times, is simply the straw that broke the camel's back for many people.

We are, in a sense, pleased that we now have a community that has gathered across the nation to share these stories. As I noted previously, we have many of these stories written and prepared. They are available to the members of the committee upon request.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Now we will move to Mr. Dhaliwal.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you have six minutes. Go ahead.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Sister Salma.

My heart is with many couples like the Farhan Ali's, who are the victims of a poor regulation, regulation 4. I want to remind the honourable Conservative members that this regulation 4 was brought in by Jason Kenney at the time and puts the onus on the couples to prove not only that the marriage is genuine, but that, in fact, when they entered into the marriage, their intentions were to be husband and wife. That is what is causing a lot of problems, and it was created by Jason Kenney and the Conservatives.

My focus right now is a question that will go to Dr. Ono and Chantale Munger on students in particular. When we were going through the last election we were hearing a lot of outcry from parents that the international students were taking the spots that were for local students here. In fact, I agree more with both of you. We know that international students contribute to our economy and provide immense economic, cultural and social contributions to Canada.

Dr. Ono, could you elaborate on how international students enrich your campus and institution as a whole, and British Columbia as a whole, when it comes to particularly this problem?

[Chantale Munger]

First, it isn't true that foreign students are taking the place of our young people. In fact, CEGEPs in the regions lack students because of the declining birth rate. This is now the case almost everywhere in Quebec. We have the necessary equipment and facilities to take in students. We have a labour shortage as a result of the lack of students in various technical programs tied to the industrial sectors and in the health field and other fields. Companies have vacancies. There's a real need for companies to partner with schools and educational institutions to find the necessary workers.

The irony that I mentioned is also the fact that students are successfully recruited abroad, but their applications are rejected when they've completed all the steps. We also see companies looking abroad to try to find workers, whereas we've managed to find them.

Why look for workers who have been trained elsewhere, when we can bring in young people who speak our language and who want to take training that's completely adapted to the workplace? They'll want to stay and they'll choose a region to live in afterwards.

Moreover, out of the 3,000 students attending Cégep de Jonquière—

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

How about Mr. Ono.

[Dr. Santa J. Ono]

Thank you very much.

First of all, let me say to your point that the international students who apply to our university and to many of the universities across Canada that they compete in a completely separate pool. What happens is that we have funded seats for domestic students. You know that's the case at UBC, and we first fill those seats. Then each faculty looks at how many more additional students they can bring in who are international.

The truth is that, first, the resources that international students bring to the institution allow us to educate more Canadians than if these students were not at our university. That's number one. The impact is to increase the availability of education for our domestic students.

Second, as you know, there's a great learning environment that results from having different people with different perspectives together in the same class. I submit that it's very good for the world as well to have different people from different places with different ideas and cultures coming together.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

We have made many changes, like to working hours and also counting the times your overseas students have been doing their studies overseas. What are some of the other improvements you suggest to [Inaudible-Editor] framework for international students?

[Dr. Santa J. Ono]

We're very grateful for the changes that have been made. We think there's an opportunity, first, to look at processing times for student permits, visas, and cooperative or work-integrated learning opportunities. Obtaining these permits continue to be a little bit of a struggle for our students and our post-secondary institutions. If we can work together to decrease the time for receiving those study and work permits, it would make the system of students coming to Canada much easier. It's really critical, as I said, because we're in a global competition for these students.

One other concrete thing that can be done is to waive the biometric collection abroad for a limited time to allow students to start co-op jobs during the pandemic as soon as they apply for the work permits. There's no way for them, for example, to give biometrics, due to closure of the VACs in their countries or regions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Sorry for interrupting, Dr. Ono, but your time is up. Maybe you can go into further detail with someone else when we go around.

Next we have Ms. Normandin.

Ms. Normandin, you have six minutes. The floor is yours.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Munger, I have some questions about what you talked about at the end of your presentation, students coming from French-speaking Africa. I gather there's a dichotomy: on one hand, students are offered scholarships, and on the other hand, they are denied and not granted study permits.

As far as you know, why are study permits being denied? What would you recommend so this doesn't happen and so Quebec doesn't lose French-speaking students, given that it's already struggling to attract them?

[Chantale Munger]

In our view, the dichotomy lies in the fact that students from countries such as India and Pakistan benefit from timely processing, whereas the students who make up our particular pool, those from French-speaking Africa, do not. We manage to attract and retain students from the Ivory Coast, Guinea and the like. These are high-achieving students who receive merit scholarships. Once they've gone through the whole process, however, they're denied study permits. Insufficient funding is usually the reason that's given, but they're receiving annual scholarships of $16,000. Either no checks are being done or the different departments don't communicate with one another.

Therefore, my recommendation is to grant permits to students from French-speaking countries who have received scholarships.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I have another question.

You said that regional universities have to work harder to recruit international students than universities in large urban centres do. I'd like you to talk more about that and tell us what would help regional universities and CEGEPs.

[Chantale Munger]

Earlier, we were discussing the huge needs that are apparent in the regions. I have to point out that international students help to alleviate the labour shortage and to keep at-risk programs alive. A number of programs have to shut down for want of students. It's important to ensure that both the region and the CEGEP thrive.

As far as recommendations go, I should mention the importance of improving immigration services and processes. They are plagued by a tremendous number of challenges; people report considerable wait times, closures and mistakes. All of those have been exacerbated by COVID-19, which has led to the closure of post offices and biometrics collection centres, longer processing times, errors, and inconsistencies.

Another recommendation would be to reinstate services that used to be available, including a helpline people could call to ask an IRCC employee questions and obtain information. I would also recommend better training for immigration officers and better communication between centres so fewer errors are made during this particular time. In addition, assigning more staff to review files would reduce excessively long processing times. It takes 15 weeks for a study permit for France and 25 weeks in the case of Senegal. Students need access to better services as well; although a helpline for students exists, it isn't accessible. Sometimes, they can't get an answer or the line simply isn't available.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Munger.

You brought up the fact that, even for very short internships, the process is very onerous. That's discouraging not only for students, but also for anyone wanting to take on interns. The process is so long, and there's no way to know when the person will get their permit.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on what could be done to make things easier for students simply wanting to do an internship, especially if it's a short one.

[Chantale Munger]

What CEGEPs are trying to do is participate in internationalization. It's about offering a range of experiences. We host international students and we send our students abroad. Hosting international interns and sending Canadian interns abroad requires some reciprocity. If we want our students to benefit from international learning opportunities such as internships, but we can't take interns, there's no reciprocity. Why would international students come to Canada, where the system is extremely complicated?

First, the process to accept students who have been granted study permits needs to be streamlined. The government has to make it easier to host and attract talent and to offer students internships without going through the international mobility program. Under the program, student interns are considered workers, despite being in the country for just a few weeks. Exchanges are possible thanks to co-operation agreements with other learning institutions around the world.

Another important measure is to allow students to have their biometrics collected when they enter Canada, not when they're in their regions. Some of our students and interns come from countries that don't necessarily have collection centres. For instance, Réunion Island has no such centre, so students have to go to Mauritius for biometrics collection. It also poses challenges in Africa, where the process is highly complicated.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Munger.

Do I have time for another question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 15 seconds.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I have only enough time to ask the question, so I'll wait until my next turn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Now we will move to Ms. Kwan.

You have six minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for taking time to come to our committee. I'd like to direct my questions to Ms. Dubé and Mr. Farhan Ali.

The immigration committee, back in 2017, studied the issues of family reunification. Back then, we heard from witnesses that it was almost impossible for family members to come to Canada through a temporary visa. In fact, if they were submitting a spousal sponsorship application, it seemed to be worse because having close ties in Canada almost automatically got people a rejection based on 179(b), under which an official could cite—based on your travel history, the purpose of your visit and your employment prospects in your own country—that did not met the criteria to return to your own country after your visit.

To that end, some witnesses suggested that 179(b) should be done away with in the visa applications for spousal sponsorships. I'm just wondering if this is the position of the SSA, to call on the government to suspend the use of 179(b) for spousal sponsorship applications for temporary visas.

[Chantal Dubé]

Madam Chair, I wish to inform committee that that is indeed correct. We have experienced extremely high levels of rejection, regardless of the fact that we have been approved as sponsors. Clearly we can ensure that our spouses are taken care of while they are here. We can ensure that they will return when it is time for them to return.

It is essential, especially in times of crisis like now, to be able to be reunited with our spouses. In some cases, we cannot travel to their countries. In some cases, it's not safe to do so. Understandably, we are concerned for their well-being, and it would provide us with a great deal of comfort to know they are safe in our homes, at least for a visit.

Yes, we wish that something could be done to suspend paragraph 179(b) as it applies to the spouses of Canadian citizens.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

In the case of Mr. Farhan, your application has been in process for 34 months. Last Friday you finally got your approval after much to-do: lots of advocacy from the group, from MPs, from me on your behalf, and finally the application has come through. Yet you have had visits to the United States, you have an approved travel visa through the United States, but you cannot get one to Canada. Is that correct?

[Syed Farhan Ali]

Honourable Jenny Kwan, thank you so much for mentioning my case here.

Yes, that's correct.

At the time of the birth of my daughter—July 2017—we applied for a Canadian visa from the New York embassy. My wife was pregnant. We drove all the way from Buffalo to New York. My wife and I were present at the consulate general of Canada's office in New York. We applied for a TRV, begging them to please allow me to be there for the birth of my first daughter. Those moments were emotional. We were so hopeful that my wife.... We mentioned in our application that she was pregnant, and we both were present at your office in New York: “Please allow us to be together at this precious moment that's not going to come back again.”

In three or four days, our application was returned. The same thing, paragraph 179(b), was the hindrance, the reason they rejected it. I am in the U.S.A. The U.S.A. granted me a visa to visit based on only four questions. They never asked me for a bank statement or any employment history. The only thing they asked me about was why I was going to the U.S.A.

I told them that my wife is Canadian. I didn't have a Canadian visa. Please allow me to see my wife.

The lady at the other counter looked at the computer for a couple of minutes and granted the visa.

I had no idea for how long. When I got the passport, it was for five years. It's still valid for another half year.

I am really grateful to them. Canada is known for prioritizing family. When we got rejected in 2017 at the time of the birth of my daughter, we were shattered.

My wife went into a severe depression. She took Pristiq, a medicine for depression, which then caused severe issues for my daughter. She is severely autistic because of that medicine.