Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 16th, 2020

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

Are you concerned that the government's recent announcement for Hong Kong leaves out, say, grandparents or older individuals who do not have post-secondary education, or perhaps those who don't have the economic means to obtain a post-secondary education?

[Robert Falconer]

Yes, absolutely.

I wasn't [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I noted when I read the [Technical difficulty—Editor]. While I think the announcement is a first step, it's an insufficient one.

With regard to humanitarian intervention, which is really what this is, I can understand the desire of [Technical difficulty—Editor] for highly qualified students. Again, I applaud those measures, but it leaves a very large gap for grandparents and for extended family members who might not qualify and for those not having post-secondary education within the recent past.

I don't know the exact time, but I believe the recent graduate qualification for these programs is that within the past five years they would have had to [Technical difficulty—Editor] a program.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's correct.

Thank you for that. I appreciate that.

I want to get your comments on actions from other countries concerning Hong Kong. How do you feel the recent Canadian immigration announcement compares to actions taken by U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson?

[Robert Falconer]

Certainly, the U.K. has a more robust program, with regard to a special type of [Technical difficulty—Editor] that certain Hong Kongers hold who are able to qualify for Britain.

One thing to note, similar to the Canadian program, is that there has been no specific [Technical difficulty—Editor] on behalf of the U.K. government about when they're going to move forward on a lot of these immigration measures. The group that the program [Technical difficulty—Editor] again is a lot more expansive compared to the Canadian immigration program.

I would say, though, that the big thing here is not having clear details about when this program is going to roll out, and its much more limited focus on the groups that are eligible for it under the Canadian system.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

Further to that, the government has promised expedited service for Hong Kong nationals.

Do you think it's important that they commit to service standards, for example, publicly? Given that we've heard a lot on this committee alone today about the delays, do you think it's important that they commit to deadlines for the announcement they made?

[Robert Falconer]

I would say, yes, service standards are absolutely vital. Other research around other jurisdictions, various migration agencies and other allies and friends of Canada have shown that service standards do help improve timeliness, but the big thing as well is that there needs to be an upfront investment in staff training and sufficient staff capacity in order to process these claims.

One thing [Technical difficulty—Editor] made in my opening testimony here is that we have a very reactive refugee claim system that tends to play catch-up. That's not specific to any government; it's actually something that has been consistent over the past 20 years. There has been a spike in claims during this period and we've played catch-up for about two years. That [Technical difficulty—Editor] again has a fiscal impact as well on the [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Falconer. We have about a minute and a half left.

My understanding is that a number of individuals have had their travel documents seized in Hong Kong. What do you believe can be done for them? That was not mentioned or included at all in the Liberal announcement last week.

[Robert Falconer]

One of the members of the committee, Ms. Kwan, recommended the revival of the source country system. This is an older refugee resettlement program that would help what we call IDPs, or internally displaced persons, people who are in places like Hong Kong, or let's say there was an [Technical difficulty—Editor] family trapped within Iraq or elsewhere. It allows us to resettle them in Canada. With that refugee system comes something very important: We're able to issue travel documents for an individual, which would [Technical difficulty—Editor] a passport. I think short-term, and maybe long-term [Technical difficulty—Editor] the source country refugee resettlement system to provide them with travel documents to come to Canada.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Falconer.

Ms. Chan, did you have anything to add? We have about 20 seconds left.

[Starus Chan]

I would like to take 20 seconds to talk about my story. Many international students have spoken up already. There is a lack of clear information about immigration rules and policies, and as migrants, when we miss deadlines the consequences are very serious. As a student from Hong Kong, I benefit from the new measure; however—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Chan, sorry for interrupting, but your time is up.

We will now move on to Mr. Dhaliwal.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you have six minutes.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the presenters.

My questions will go to Jatin.

Jatin, first of all, my apologies that I was not part of your wedding celebration, even though your auntie, my wife, Roni, was there. I wish all the best to you and your wife in the coming years.

Jatin, in the business you are in and the area you are coming from, I'm sure you are hearing the same things that I do. If we look prior to 2015 and moving forward to 2021, when it comes to parents and grandparents, the number of applications we can take has increased sixfold, from 5,000 applications all the way to 30,000 applications, and we have increased the age of a dependent child from 18 to 22. Last year, in 2019, the number of spouses, parents and grandparents...27% of the immigration was from that category.

When it comes to wait times, they have gone from several years to two years for parents and grandparents, and from almost over two years to one year for spousal applications. That is the reduction in the wait times. To reduce these wait times, which were historically inherited and are because of COVID, we're going to process 49,000 spousal applications by the end of December.

Jatin, I would like you to comment on how you see these developments for reducing the backlog that was inherited historically and because of COVID, and also comment on the number of applications we are going to accept.

[Jatin Shory]

Mr. Dhaliwal, sir, thank you for the question. You were missed at the wedding as well, so no worries there.

I'll speak about the parents and grandparents first, and then I'll talk about the spousal sponsorship applications.

With respect to the parents and grandparents applications right now, it's great that they're still being accepted. It's great that the procedure is still being...and the program is still in play. However, it's a bit confusing for me. Last year, we had the “first-come, first-served” situation, and it was pretty obvious, I think.... Within seven minutes, the entire portal shut down. It was quite devastating for a lot of our clients, as well, who were trying to get some help. It was really devastating for people who didn't have an adequate Internet connection, people who couldn't type as quickly as other people.

It's my understanding that the government had to settle a number of cases, as well, due to human rights concerns that were brought up, so I can understand why the government may have decided this year to revert back to the lottery system. It is a system that I think prior to last year's program was a system that ultimately had some form of consistency based on programs that existed before. This year I guess it is 10,000 applications or interest to sponsor forms that will be selected, and I guess it's 30,000 next year. I'm not too sure if that is the best system moving forward.

I know that this is not the first committee meeting. I know there have been a number of suggestions by senior colleagues in the space, suggestions for weighted lottery systems, for example. That's something that should probably be explored in today's day and age. It's something that even clients have asked us when they come in talking about the different types of ways that they have been considered, people who have been waiting five to 10 years just to sponsor their parents.

With respect to the spousal sponsorship applications, frankly, I'm really confused. Of the 49,000 spousal sponsorship applications being processed, how many are going to be successful? What kinds of mechanisms and safeguards are being put into evaluating the way the discretion of visa officers is being exercised and the way they're actually looking into and evaluating the genuineness of marriage or the primary purpose of the application? Ms. Bergeron's story is, unfortunately, not unique. It's something that a number of my clients come in the door sharing with us. I'm curious to see how that plays out.

Again, those are my concerns here today.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

The second question I'm going to ask you is about the temporary workers who are here. Every day I'm in the constituency or on the media—a radio station or a TV station—one question is asked. They have a petition going, and they want to see if we can increase the number of permanent immigrants from these temporary work permits, even though 22% of the immigration in 2019 was from this category.

Would you have suggestions as to how the government can improve so that those people can be given a chance to become permanent Canadians?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Give a quick 30-second answer, please.

[Jatin Shory]

Sure.

I'm not a policy guy. Ultimately, 2019 numbers are pre-COVID, and post-COVID... I think that was the purpose of this study from the get-go. I don't know if I have any suggestions necessarily, but again, I know a lot of colleagues, lawyers and non-lawyers, can see that the obvious solution here is looking at our friends, our neighbours, people who are here already, and just figuring out quicker ways of helping them achieve that status.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

I would like to ask—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal. Your time is up.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Can I request something from the panellist, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your time is up. We have to move to the next person.

Ms. Normandin, you have six minutes for your round of questioning.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Many of my questions are for Ms. Bergeron. We have the opportunity to meet with someone who really went through the whole process.

As counsel, I've seen a few cases. However, Ms. Bergeron, I think that it's worthwhile to let you speak about what you've been through.

I'll start by asking you the following question. When you were told that the visas had been refused, were you sent a generic response or a response explaining why certain documents were taken into consideration while others were not?

[Emmanuelle Bergeron]

It was a generic response, which referred to paragraph 179(b) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations.

The visa application was refused on the grounds that my husband had ties here in Canada and that he didn't have enough money in his bank account. This wasn't true. I deposited money into his bank account to make sure that he had the amount required by Canada. I was also told that he had never travelled. They don't take into account the fact that people from Cuba can't travel. The same reasons are given in the two refusal letters.

For our second application, counsel put together a very good case. The plane tickets were purchased in advance and everything was done according to Canada's requirements. We provided proof that he was making the trip for the birth of his son. The application was refused.

On what basis can an officer prevent a father from seeing the birth of his child? I have thousands of questions for the people at immigration. I don't understand why you prevented this. What's happening? Why can't a father see the birth of his child?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

When you receive pre-packaged responses, how do you feel about the transparency and seriousness of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada?

[Emmanuelle Bergeron]

There isn't any. I've lost confidence in the system.

When I went to the embassy in Havana to pick up the second refusal, I was five months pregnant. I threw a pregnant woman tantrum so that I could go in and speak to an officer.

When I finally managed to meet with an officer who spoke some English, he explained to me that what wasn't written was that my case had been refused because I hadn't paid the application for permanent residence fee. The $1,200 fee was the issue. I told the officer that my husband was being prevented from seeing the birth of his child because I hadn't yet paid the $1,200, which I planned to pay shortly, and that this was why the case was refused.

He said that they were putting this note in the case file. He suggested that I submit the application for permanent residence and then apply for a visitor's visa. I asked him whether he knew how much each application cost. I told him that I had accumulated over $10,000 in immigration-related debt. This included all the paperwork and translations. It's incredibly expensive.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You said that one reason provided was that, once the visa had expired, Ernesto may not return to Cuba. Would you have encouraged him to stay here when the visa expired?