Evidence of meeting #6 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was application.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you, Mr. Clarke.
Thank you to all the witnesses. I appreciate your time.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Ms. Dancho. Thank you to the witnesses.
We will now move on to Mr. Regan.
Mr. Regan, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Clark, you may have to send a bill to Mr. Holthe for all the good things you're saying about him and his firm. I'm sure they're appreciated.
This question is for both of you.
As a result of the pandemic, I understand that the IRB suspended refugee hearings, but it has since resumed them virtually. During the suspension, I gather that IRB members used their time to work on previously received cases and to try to work on system efficiencies so they could improve or optimize case intake and processing.
How do you see this affecting the refugee claims process? What issues have you noticed that can be improved upon, and how would you do that?
I'll ask Mr. Clarke and then Mr. Holthe, please.
5:55 p.m.
Lawyer, Clarke Immigration Law, As an Individual
Thank you very much.
That's entirely correct. The IRB, in particular the RPD, did suspend its hearings, I believe in March, and then we started the remote hearings pilot project I believe in July. We had hearings approximately weekly through August, September and October, and then we resumed in-person hearings in I think October. We have remote hearings scheduled again coming up....
In my view, the remote hearings pilot project was a very positive experience. The RPD members were extremely professional, and I believe the refugee claimants had a good opportunity to give their testimony and to have their evidence considered.
6 p.m.
Lawyer, Holthe Immigration Law, As an Individual
I don't have much more to add other than what Alastair has indicated.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Okay. Thank you.
My next question is for Mr. Holthe, and I hope there will be time for Ms. Mahmoud also.
The government has indicated that family and spousal reunification is a priority for it. It recently made an announcement on spousal sponsorship, indicating that IRCC staff levels were being increased by 66%—that is to say, those who are working on spousal sponsorship—to make sure they're continuing to address the backlog. The government said that this increase will lead to 49,000 decisions by the end of the year, and it's looking to pilot remote interviews as well. Also, I'm aware that spousal applications are all being digitized.
First of all, do you see these developments as helpful in reducing the backlog? Secondly, will they aid in modernizing the system by decreasing the extent of inefficiencies? If not, what else is the right answer here?
6 p.m.
Lawyer, Holthe Immigration Law, As an Individual
Yes. Absolutely every step they've been taking is positive. I applaud them for it, without any doubt. These innovations that are being created because they've been forced.... The government's been forced to make changes, no different than with the Syrian refugees and the efficiencies that they were able to create, which are wonderful. One of the problems I will bring up, though, is that in order to get those queues down, many spousal applications are being returned for very frivolous reasons—for a small little thing like no wet signature, for example. People who have been waiting six to seven months are now back in the queue again.
I think there needs to be a little bit more compassion versus the one-touch policy, but yes, I really, really like the positive developments that have occurred and how IRCC has reacted.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Ms. Mahmoud, did you hear my question about the backlogs and the efforts to try to reduce those?
6 p.m.
Representative, Centre social d’aide aux immigrants
I agree with what the lawyers just explained. I think these developments are improving the assistance for reunification of families. However, I would like to mention that up until now, there's been a distinct difference in treatment between people who need to have a TRV and people who just need to come here with an eTA. It's so different. With the eTA, they can come and stay with their spouses, with their families. After that, they can apply for in-Canada spousal sponsorship. The situation is completely different for people who need to get a TRV. As I mentioned with regard to my clients, I cannot believe somebody has to wait 10 years to join their husband or wife.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Regan. The time is up. Thank you.
Madame Normandin, you have two and a half minutes.
6 p.m.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I will refer once again to the Safe Third Country Agreement to clarify my question.
I would like to hear your views on these two options: amend the Safe Third Country Agreement to meet the criteria of Justice McDonald's decision or simply cancel the agreement.
6 p.m.
Lawyer, Clarke Immigration Law, As an Individual
That sounds like a question for me.
In my view, I would suspend the agreement. I believe it needs to be suspended and I believe it needs to be renegotiated. As long as the United States clearly violates accepted principles of international law, it is in violation of the agreement as it was originally negotiated. Therefore, it should be suspended until the United States can show again that it respects international human rights principles. Then Canada will be able to be comfortable with being part of such an agreement.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
With respect to open and closed work permits, when an employee has a closed work permit, they are sort of held hostage. They cannot easily change employers if they experience poor working conditions.
How do you feel about sector-specific permits, that is, by job type? For example, if a company needs welders, the company next door may need welders too. It's a bit silly that we have to redo the labour market impact assessment and everything else.
6:05 p.m.
Lawyer, Holthe Immigration Law, As an Individual
I can step in on this one.
I think the open work permit is a great leveller amongst employers. We have some amazing employers who care for their workers. There are a lot who don't. There's nothing more powerful to an employer when they see their employees leave. When we see employers losing employees to their competitors, that's a little indication of how well they're treating them.
So I love the open work permit. I think it's a great leveller. It helps to remove the ability of an employer to really hold a worker—
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting. Time is up.
Ms. Kwan, you have two and a half minutes. The floor is yours.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
I'd like to touch on some of the issues with how IRCC deals with applications that are missing something. They send the entire application back and then people have to start all over again. It's my worst pet peeve.
To that end, should the government fix this to say that when the applicants receive the returned submission, they should be allowed an expedited process?
Mr. Holthe and Mr. Clarke, be very quick, and then I have a different question.
6:05 p.m.
Lawyer, Holthe Immigration Law, As an Individual
That's a tough one. I think some compassion needs to be built into it. If just a little thing is missing, I agree they should have the opportunity to have their application put back into the queue where it should have been but for the little error. Remember, in years gone by, they would be sent efficiency letters saying what they're missing. But it was taking too long and they weren't able to meet these high processing standards.
6:05 p.m.
Lawyer, Clarke Immigration Law, As an Individual
I don't think those applications should be returned. I think there needs to be better communication and more collaboration. To a certain extent, we're on the same side with those applications. If there are minor issues, minor mistakes that can be easily dealt with, it would be good to have more communication with the officer. We can fix it. We can send in the missing document or the document with the missing signature and it should be processed according to the queue.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Yes, that would be the ideal universe, but it doesn't happen. I have a case right now in which someone sent in their PR application with only a letter of completion from their university, because couldn't get their degree because it was interrupted by COVID. The entire application was rejected. They tried to appeal it, and it was rejected. Now they've come to my office, and I'm writing a letter to the minister trying to see if we can get this fixed. It's just so wrong.
If we're talking about modernizing the system, how about some very basic common sense, decency and compassion in the approach? It sounds to me as if that is part of a key recommendation for modernization.
6:05 p.m.
Lawyer, Clarke Immigration Law, As an Individual
Absolutely. I believe there are some good online tech solutions for this type of problem. I think if we use the tools that are already out there, this can be fixed.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
On the online piece, we also ran into cases where people have some slight—